Chinese sword? Maybe pirate? Thanks

carlos · 7th February 2020, 11:55 AM

I just received this sword, seller told me sword is chinese, and the hilt seems chinese to me too.
Maybe pirate? Seems a cutlass
Thanks in advance
Carlos

mariusgmioc · 7th February 2020, 05:55 PM

Doesn't look Chinese to me...

David R · 7th February 2020, 10:53 PM

And it looks republic period Chinese to me... and I could be so wrong. Looking forward to more on this one.

Kubur · 7th February 2020, 11:24 PM

For me the hilt is a combination of two European swords
European swords have also stingray skin.
Not Chinese to me
Cutlass and naval sword probably
Pirate... Do you have a skull engraved on the guard?
Impossible to say

Philip · 9th February 2020, 06:22 AM

I agree with Kubur -- this is a non-Chinese composite, in fact I see nothing specifically Asiatic about it at all.

M ELEY · 9th February 2020, 07:10 AM

If you mention 'pirate', you get my attention-

I agree that the components of the guard and knucklebow appear European, but something about the grip strikes me as differing from pieces I have held. Composite? Undoubtedly, but in this circumstance, not in a bad way. This isn't a put-together made to deceive or for resale. It appears to be a real cutlass-type sword of the "private purchase, i.e. not a naval sword type). Pirate? Who knows. Without provenance, it might or might not be. The extra spacer used to tighten the hilt has been seen on some Spanish colonial types.

I know shagreen/fish skin was used on Euro swords, but this grip is a shape more often seen on colonial-type swords. I think that's why some of us are questioning Asian. Could this have been a captured British cutlass rehilted by Malay pirates? I've seen exactly that from a m1840 cutlass cut down and refitting, complete with a Malay grip. Is this sword one such? Again, who knows! This is the frustrating work of collecting composite naval and colonial-type swords.

What we can deduce is that it is a post-1800 naval type sword constructed of materials to be used as a working weapon. Fits the description of many boarding-type swords (see Gilkerson, Boarders Away, private purchase swords). An interesting sword, in any case...

Philip · 9th February 2020, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

If you mention 'pirate', you get my attention-

Could this have been a captured British cutlass rehilted by Malay pirates? I've seen exactly that from a m1840 cutlass cut down and refitting, complete with a Malay grip. .

Does the shape of the grip on the present example give any hint as to Malay style or craftsmanship? Is this shape identical or similar to that on the M1840 that you have seen? Might you have a pic of that sword to share for comparison purposes? As you stated, the presence of the rayskin covering is a feature of some European hilts as well.

This is indeed an intriguing piece and your comments about the possibility of bespoke or ad hoc creation as a non-regulation weapon are well worth considering.

Ren Ren · 9th February 2020, 06:02 PM

Also, I do not see any Chinese signs.
In my opinion, the hilt is similar to the European carriage small sword or a hunting hanger of the 18th century. Especially onion-shaped tops.
The blade comes from a completely different subject

M ELEY · 10th February 2020, 12:51 AM

Well, I spent half the day searching my old threads here of the years to no avail. In any case, this subject won't ever be closed because this piece is indeed an ersatz sword. I still think it is a cutlass-type for maritime use, but we sometimes see what we want to see, right?

Here are a couple of old threads, however, dealing with Spanish colonial, African colonial and Spanish-Filipino examples of such swords that I spoke of...

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hanger+Spanish

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...spanish+dagger

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...+chinese+sword

Peter Andeweg · 18th February 2020, 07:36 PM

To me it's a European hanger which may be used in colonial duty and had a locally rewinded hilt.

Best regards, Peter

7th February 2020, 11:55 AM	#1
carlos Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 737	Chinese sword? Maybe pirate? Thanks I just received this sword, seller told me sword is chinese, and the hilt seems chinese to me too. Maybe pirate? Seems a cutlass Thanks in advance Carlos Attached Images

7th February 2020, 05:55 PM	#2
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Doesn't look Chinese to me...

7th February 2020, 10:53 PM	#3
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,079	And it looks republic period Chinese to me... and I could be so wrong. Looking forward to more on this one.

7th February 2020, 11:24 PM	#4
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	For me the hilt is a combination of two European swords European swords have also stingray skin. Not Chinese to me Cutlass and naval sword probably Pirate... Do you have a skull engraved on the guard? Impossible to say

9th February 2020, 06:22 AM	#5
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	I agree with Kubur -- this is a non-Chinese composite, in fact I see nothing specifically Asiatic about it at all.

9th February 2020, 07:10 AM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	If you mention 'pirate', you get my attention- I agree that the components of the guard and knucklebow appear European, but something about the grip strikes me as differing from pieces I have held. Composite? Undoubtedly, but in this circumstance, not in a bad way. This isn't a put-together made to deceive or for resale. It appears to be a real cutlass-type sword of the "private purchase, i.e. not a naval sword type). Pirate? Who knows. Without provenance, it might or might not be. The extra spacer used to tighten the hilt has been seen on some Spanish colonial types. I know shagreen/fish skin was used on Euro swords, but this grip is a shape more often seen on colonial-type swords. I think that's why some of us are questioning Asian. Could this have been a captured British cutlass rehilted by Malay pirates? I've seen exactly that from a m1840 cutlass cut down and refitting, complete with a Malay grip. Is this sword one such? Again, who knows! This is the frustrating work of collecting composite naval and colonial-type swords. What we can deduce is that it is a post-1800 naval type sword constructed of materials to be used as a working weapon. Fits the description of many boarding-type swords (see Gilkerson, Boarders Away, private purchase swords). An interesting sword, in any case...

9th February 2020, 06:02 PM	#8
Ren Ren Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Russia, Moscow Posts: 374	Also, I do not see any Chinese signs. In my opinion, the hilt is similar to the European carriage small sword or a hunting hanger of the 18th century. Especially onion-shaped tops. The blade comes from a completely different subject

10th February 2020, 12:51 AM	#9
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	Well, I spent half the day searching my old threads here of the years to no avail. In any case, this subject won't ever be closed because this piece is indeed an ersatz sword. I still think it is a cutlass-type for maritime use, but we sometimes see what we want to see, right? Here are a couple of old threads, however, dealing with Spanish colonial, African colonial and Spanish-Filipino examples of such swords that I spoke of... http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hanger+Spanish http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...spanish+dagger http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...+chinese+sword

18th February 2020, 07:36 PM	#10
Peter Andeweg Member Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Vlissingen, Netherlands Posts: 71	To me it's a European hanger which may be used in colonial duty and had a locally rewinded hilt. Best regards, Peter