Solomon/PNG for want of better info

Tim Simmons · 22nd October 2024, 03:05 PM

Pushed the boat out today and in a big way for me especially as I was meant to have stopped collecting . I have not seen a club like this before and it cast a spell on me. The photos are not the best. 32 inches long and to my eyes looks like made from a heavy timber. The zigzag caving on the handle does not look Trobriand Islands/Massim work. My thoughts are in the Solomons or surrounding Islands like Island PNG or the Admiralty Islands. If anybody has better ideas please add.

drac2k · 22nd October 2024, 03:57 PM

I can not add anything constructive, but only comment that this club is absolutely stunning and that it looks like it would be very effective!

Bob A · 22nd October 2024, 05:30 PM

"Stunning" seems particularly apropos.

kronckew · 23rd October 2024, 10:52 AM

Gorgeous!

10thRoyal · 23rd October 2024, 04:20 PM

Good morning y'all. Beautiful piece that you have there! I am not an expert by any stretch but do love some research! The pattern on the grip looks similar to some I've seen on Fijian weapons but it's not exactly unique enough to place it as a place of origin.
Name: A Very Fine Fijian Striated Hardwood Pole Club ‘Bowai’ with a Whale-Tooth Inlay to the ‘Butt’_T6.jpg
Views: 353
Size: 108.2 KB

Name: A Very Fine Fijian Striated Hardwood Pole Club ‘Bowai’ with a Whale-Tooth Inlay to the ‘Butt’_T6.jpg
Views: 353
Size: 108.2 KB

For the rest of the weapon, I found a few examples of a weapon referred to as a Wawa Votovotoa. I think there are several examples in threads on this site. They seem to resemble your weapon but i can't find enough examples to make a really good case that it's a match to yours. But it is Fijian in origin which would go with the grip pattern. Once again, this is a new area to me so I appreciate your patience.

Tim Simmons · 24th October 2024, 10:38 AM

10thRoyal,

Thank you for your input , much appreciated. I am not an expert. "Expert", well I could see an "Expert" really no more than an expert in the market, what sells. Especially when it involves clubs and the like, which unlike edged weapons that are often dated and their origin and recording being far more obviously. Many an expert seem to me to just have the means to acquire the best looking and colour of the most desired pieces {in the book} I could question, does that make you an expert?

Looking at the handle the pattern is quite unlike Fijian/Tongan work which as you can see is a tight form of small zigzag carving. The Trobriand zigzag is looser more of a snake zigzag. The upper decorated part of the grip with the grid pattern looks very unlike Fijian carving. The lime inlay is also as far as I have seen not generally a feature on Fijian/Tongan clubs. The knobbly Fijian cubs you post here are to my eye a little less well carved {blasphemy of the cult of over priced ubiquitous Fijian clubs} These are the reason why I suggest the Solomon Islands, PNG and possibly the Bismark Archipelago. However if viewers can be more positive or persuasive do contribute. One rather unlikely origin could be South America. I think if it were to be displayed with right lighting in a Parisian or Belgian gallery it would be given an a origin.

Tim Simmons · 24th October 2024, 12:09 PM

Well a new development. Link originally uploaded by the Late Great VANDOO in page one there is this example "FIJI CLUB NAMED MADRALI" . So it may well be Fijian and if so I did rather well

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=Votovotoa

Tim Simmons · 24th October 2024, 03:09 PM

Well it has arrived and some new photos. So perhaps lime inlay is not so odd when discussing Fijian clubs. Now I have it in my hands although not one of those big heavy polished clubs, more like the shorter pole clubs. The grip is more suited for two hand gripping making a fast weapon too heavy for one hand use. Some file marks a nice old club and said to be a rare form so I am really quite happy. The grip pattern is tight. The original photo like many ebay photo and I don't know why are like the saying "you cant see the wood for the trees" The limpet distal part of the club seems to have been blackened some way, I imagine to make the lime stand out though there is very little left

10thRoyal · 24th October 2024, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Well it has arrived and some new photos. So perhaps lime inlay is not so odd when discussing Fijian clubs. Now I have it in my hands although not one of those big heavy polished clubs, more like the shorter pole clubs. The grip is more suited for two hand gripping making a fast weapon too heavy for one hand use. Some file marks a nice old club and said to be a rare form so I am really quite happy. The grip pattern is tight. The original photo like many ebay photo and I don't know why are like the saying "you cant see the wood for the trees" The limpet distal part of the club seems to have been blackened some way, I imagine to make the lime stand out though there is very little left

One again that is beautiful! You really did well it seems. I'm glad you were able to find the info you needed. It does seem shorter than the other examples. Is there any chance it had once been longer but the handle was shortened or broke at some point? Just a thought.

Tim Simmons · 24th October 2024, 06:10 PM

Possibly shortened but I doubt it as there is a rather ergonomic concave shape in the grip that makes gripping nice and comfortable.

RobT · Yesterday, 12:26 AM

Tim Simmons,

I have read that fighting canes were hardened by smearing them with butter and shoving them up the chimney for a while. The heat was said to harden the wood. I don't know any details about the procedure, whether it worked, or even if it was actually done and isn't just an old wives' tale. If true however, your club could have been given a similar treatment and that could account for the darkening on the business end. Really nice club in any event.

Sincerely,
RobT

22nd October 2024, 03:05 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,804	Solomon/PNG for want of better info Pushed the boat out today and in a big way for me especially as I was meant to have stopped collecting . I have not seen a club like this before and it cast a spell on me. The photos are not the best. 32 inches long and to my eyes looks like made from a heavy timber. The zigzag caving on the handle does not look Trobriand Islands/Massim work. My thoughts are in the Solomons or surrounding Islands like Island PNG or the Admiralty Islands. If anybody has better ideas please add. Attached Images

23rd October 2024, 04:20 PM	#5
10thRoyal Member Join Date: Apr 2021 Posts: 78	Good morning y'all. Beautiful piece that you have there! I am not an expert by any stretch but do love some research! The pattern on the grip looks similar to some I've seen on Fijian weapons but it's not exactly unique enough to place it as a place of origin. For the rest of the weapon, I found a few examples of a weapon referred to as a Wawa Votovotoa. I think there are several examples in threads on this site. They seem to resemble your weapon but i can't find enough examples to make a really good case that it's a match to yours. But it is Fijian in origin which would go with the grip pattern. Once again, this is a new area to me so I appreciate your patience. Attached Images

24th October 2024, 12:09 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,804	Well a new development. Link originally uploaded by the Late Great VANDOO in page one there is this example "FIJI CLUB NAMED MADRALI" . So it may well be Fijian and if so I did rather well http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ight=Votovotoa Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 24th October 2024 at 12:13 PM. Reason: lots

24th October 2024, 03:09 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,804	Well it has arrived and some new photos. So perhaps lime inlay is not so odd when discussing Fijian clubs. Now I have it in my hands although not one of those big heavy polished clubs, more like the shorter pole clubs. The grip is more suited for two hand gripping making a fast weapon too heavy for one hand use. Some file marks a nice old club and said to be a rare form so I am really quite happy. The grip pattern is tight. The original photo like many ebay photo and I don't know why are like the saying "you cant see the wood for the trees" The limpet distal part of the club seems to have been blackened some way, I imagine to make the lime stand out though there is very little left Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 24th October 2024 at 04:20 PM. Reason: lots

Yesterday, 12:26 AM	#11
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 483	Re: The Blackening Tim Simmons, I have read that fighting canes were hardened by smearing them with butter and shoving them up the chimney for a while. The heat was said to harden the wood. I don't know any details about the procedure, whether it worked, or even if it was actually done and isn't just an old wives' tale. If true however, your club could have been given a similar treatment and that could account for the darkening on the business end. Really nice club in any event. Sincerely, RobT

22nd October 2024, 03:57 PM	#2
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,228	I can not add anything constructive, but only comment that this club is absolutely stunning and that it looks like it would be very effective!

22nd October 2024, 05:30 PM	#3
Bob A Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 427	"Stunning" seems particularly apropos.

23rd October 2024, 10:52 AM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,175	Gorgeous!

24th October 2024, 10:38 AM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,804	10thRoyal, Thank you for your input , much appreciated. I am not an expert. "Expert", well I could see an "Expert" really no more than an expert in the market, what sells. Especially when it involves clubs and the like, which unlike edged weapons that are often dated and their origin and recording being far more obviously. Many an expert seem to me to just have the means to acquire the best looking and colour of the most desired pieces {in the book} I could question, does that make you an expert? Looking at the handle the pattern is quite unlike Fijian/Tongan work which as you can see is a tight form of small zigzag carving. The Trobriand zigzag is looser more of a snake zigzag. The upper decorated part of the grip with the grid pattern looks very unlike Fijian carving. The lime inlay is also as far as I have seen not generally a feature on Fijian/Tongan clubs. The knobbly Fijian cubs you post here are to my eye a little less well carved {blasphemy of the cult of over priced ubiquitous Fijian clubs} These are the reason why I suggest the Solomon Islands, PNG and possibly the Bismark Archipelago. However if viewers can be more positive or persuasive do contribute. One rather unlikely origin could be South America. I think if it were to be displayed with right lighting in a Parisian or Belgian gallery it would be given an a origin.

24th October 2024, 06:10 PM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,804	Possibly shortened but I doubt it as there is a rather ergonomic concave shape in the grip that makes gripping nice and comfortable.