Tenegre?

RobT · 8th August 2022, 06:29 PM

Hi All,

I just got my anniversary present and it is stunningly graceful. Since it is more slender and curvilinear than the typical tenegre, can it still be classified as such?
The 19-5/8" (49.8475cm) chisel ground, clip point blade has a chisel ground false edge to the clip point. Across the flat, the blade is about 5/8" (15.875mm) wide at its narrowest point and about 1-9/16" (3.96875cm) at its widest. The spine is a tad under 1/4" (6.35mm) at the hilt and tapers to about 1/8" (3.175mm) at the clip point.
The hilt is mahogany and appears to be the simplified deity type. The ferrule is brass.
The sheath is mahogany. Three steel bands are visible (one at the throat and one at each end of the cord wrap) but a strong magnet (used with the blade unsheathed) shows that there are two more below the cord wrap. I don't believe the cord wrap is original to the piece. Work of an American seaman perhaps? Somebody also glopped on a thick layer of varnish to the hilt and the sheath (it almost looked as if they had been dipped in it). I got most of it off the hilt and will try to do the same with the sheath.
I don't think the sword is robust enough for military use but would be light enough for comfortable civilian carry. The clip point notwithstanding, without a guard of some type, I wouldn't be too sanguine about using it to thrust with. These shortcomings aside, it is one beautiful piece. I estimate age as just post WWII.

Sincerely,
RobT

drac2k · 10th August 2022, 06:11 AM

First, let me compliment your significant other on having excellent taste in the gift that you received on your anniversary!
Even though I am that knowledgeable in these matters, to me it is a tenegre. I will also speculate that your sword is at least pre-WW2. I love the knotwork on the scabbard, which was as you speculated probably done by an American Sailor.
Your sword is a true fighting weapon and I would not discount it for being light as many Philippine martial artists like a "fast," weapon that can make multiple quick strikes.

kai · 10th August 2022, 11:37 PM

I'd second that motion, Rob: Congrats, very nice piece! Let me know in case you dare to let it pass in many moons...

I could certainly live without the cord wrap which definitely is a later addition out of the originating culture; now part of its history though.

Most of the traditional archipelago blades come without any guard: Limited personal protection equipment. Heavily committed thrusts tend to be rare with swords; if needed, a thrust can be supported by the live hand...

Regards,
Kai

Rick · 11th August 2022, 02:33 AM

Nice!
Is that a stamp I see on the blade?

RobT · 11th August 2022, 03:06 AM

drac2, kai, Rick,

Let me say that my wife got as good as she gave because she is now the very happy owner of the finest 19th century French navaja I have ever seen.
I am glad to know that it is a tenegre and even more pleased with the possibility that it is pre WWII.
I am going to leave the cord wrap in place. It isn't part of the original culture but it is now part of the history of the blade. Also, it is well done and may actually serve to protect the sheath from damage.
I am also happy to know that everybody has a higher opinion of its combat worthiness. Because I am a big fan of sturdy, maybe I am being too harsh.
The mark by the hilt isn't a maker's mark, it's just a forge mark.
This is a really special blade in my collection, both for what it represents as a gift and for the beauty that it has.

Sincerely,
RobT

drac2k · 11th August 2022, 03:59 AM

Now I see your true genius! First, you get a great sword from your wife and then you reward her by giving your wife a beautiful 19th Century Navaja.
You my friend are the master of mental jiu-jitsu.

xasterix · 11th August 2022, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drac2k

Now I see your true genius! First, you get a great sword from your wife and then you reward her by giving your wife a beautiful 19th Century Navaja.
You my friend are the master of mental jiu-jitsu.

I second this lol

kronckew · 15th August 2022, 10:23 AM

Nice sword!

The naval coxcombing (fancy knotwork on the railings) is found on most US Navy or Coast Guard ships, and I suspect it's the same on most naval ships worldwide. It keeps the recruits busy. All the ships I've been on, would never got as dirty as the examples I found googling, they'd be redone &/or painted white before the CO (Commanding Officer, ie. Captain) could see them.

RobT · 16th August 2022, 01:47 AM

kronekew,

Glad you like my sword. Your examples show that I guessed correctly. Interesting name for this kind of wrap because initially, coxcomb referred to a type of jester's cap and later became a pejorative for a vain and foolish man. Thanks a lot for the info. I will add the term to the sword description in my database.

Sincerely,
RobT

8th August 2022, 06:29 PM	#1
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 493	Tenegre? Hi All, I just got my anniversary present and it is stunningly graceful. Since it is more slender and curvilinear than the typical tenegre, can it still be classified as such? The 19-5/8" (49.8475cm) chisel ground, clip point blade has a chisel ground false edge to the clip point. Across the flat, the blade is about 5/8" (15.875mm) wide at its narrowest point and about 1-9/16" (3.96875cm) at its widest. The spine is a tad under 1/4" (6.35mm) at the hilt and tapers to about 1/8" (3.175mm) at the clip point. The hilt is mahogany and appears to be the simplified deity type. The ferrule is brass. The sheath is mahogany. Three steel bands are visible (one at the throat and one at each end of the cord wrap) but a strong magnet (used with the blade unsheathed) shows that there are two more below the cord wrap. I don't believe the cord wrap is original to the piece. Work of an American seaman perhaps? Somebody also glopped on a thick layer of varnish to the hilt and the sheath (it almost looked as if they had been dipped in it). I got most of it off the hilt and will try to do the same with the sheath. I don't think the sword is robust enough for military use but would be light enough for comfortable civilian carry. The clip point notwithstanding, without a guard of some type, I wouldn't be too sanguine about using it to thrust with. These shortcomings aside, it is one beautiful piece. I estimate age as just post WWII. Sincerely, RobT Attached Images Last edited by RobT; 8th August 2022 at 06:30 PM. Reason: grammar

11th August 2022, 03:06 AM	#5
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 493	Thanks for the Info & Comments drac2, kai, Rick, Let me say that my wife got as good as she gave because she is now the very happy owner of the finest 19th century French navaja I have ever seen. I am glad to know that it is a tenegre and even more pleased with the possibility that it is pre WWII. I am going to leave the cord wrap in place. It isn't part of the original culture but it is now part of the history of the blade. Also, it is well done and may actually serve to protect the sheath from damage. I am also happy to know that everybody has a higher opinion of its combat worthiness. Because I am a big fan of sturdy, maybe I am being too harsh. The mark by the hilt isn't a maker's mark, it's just a forge mark. This is a really special blade in my collection, both for what it represents as a gift and for the beauty that it has. Sincerely, RobT

15th August 2022, 10:23 AM	#8
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	Nice sword! The naval coxcombing (fancy knotwork on the railings) is found on most US Navy or Coast Guard ships, and I suspect it's the same on most naval ships worldwide. It keeps the recruits busy. All the ships I've been on, would never got as dirty as the examples I found googling, they'd be redone &/or painted white before the CO (Commanding Officer, ie. Captain) could see them. Attached Images

16th August 2022, 01:47 AM	#9
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 493	Your Pics Nail It kronekew, Glad you like my sword. Your examples show that I guessed correctly. Interesting name for this kind of wrap because initially, coxcomb referred to a type of jester's cap and later became a pejorative for a vain and foolish man. Thanks a lot for the info. I will add the term to the sword description in my database. Sincerely, RobT

10th August 2022, 06:11 AM	#2
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,232	First, let me compliment your significant other on having excellent taste in the gift that you received on your anniversary! Even though I am that knowledgeable in these matters, to me it is a tenegre. I will also speculate that your sword is at least pre-WW2. I love the knotwork on the scabbard, which was as you speculated probably done by an American Sailor. Your sword is a true fighting weapon and I would not discount it for being light as many Philippine martial artists like a "fast," weapon that can make multiple quick strikes.

10th August 2022, 11:37 PM	#3
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	I'd second that motion, Rob: Congrats, very nice piece! Let me know in case you dare to let it pass in many moons... I could certainly live without the cord wrap which definitely is a later addition out of the originating culture; now part of its history though. Most of the traditional archipelago blades come without any guard: Limited personal protection equipment. Heavily committed thrusts tend to be rare with swords; if needed, a thrust can be supported by the live hand... Regards, Kai

11th August 2022, 02:33 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Nice! Is that a stamp I see on the blade?

11th August 2022, 03:59 AM	#6
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,232	Now I see your true genius! First, you get a great sword from your wife and then you reward her by giving your wife a beautiful 19th Century Navaja. You my friend are the master of mental jiu-jitsu.