Could this be considered a hudiedao ?

Freddy · 2nd September 2009, 05:44 PM

I bought this knife some time ago on ebay. It looked interesting. At that moment, a discussion on hudiedao was held on the forum.

In my opinion, this is also a hudiedao. The blade and handle are made from one piece, with a pommel and D-shaped handle attached to it. The handle extends on one side of the blade (back) and ends in what I call a 'snake's head'.

I don't see any holes in the tang to retain a handle of some sort. Could it be that the handle was made out of leather or some kind of fabric ?

The blade is slender and ends with a sharp point. The handle is aligned to the back of the blade. There's only 1 sharp edge and there are 2 fullers on both sides of the blade. There are also some engravings near the handle, but I can't make out what they are.

Total length : 49 cm (19,6 inches
Lenght of blade : 35 cm (14 inches)
Thickness of blade (near the handle) : 7mm

Gavin Nugent · 2nd September 2009, 06:49 PM

Certainly is a Dao, it doesn't quite look like a pair could sit back to back as the guards is flared both sides. A nice interesting study piece.
Most likely a thin wooden hilt slab at one stage of its life and maybe fabric bound.

Gav

Freddy · 2nd September 2009, 08:24 PM

Were these weapons always used in pairs ? I know, when you see them in Wing Chun, there are two. I compare them with the Japanese sai (but hudiedao are sharp !).

But there is a Japanese weapon called a 'jutte'. Mostly a simple iron bar with 1 hook. A weapon also used for parrying and this weapon was used alone.

Just a thought...could certain types of hudiedao be used in the same way ?

fearn · 2nd September 2009, 08:39 PM

I'm not sure whether it's part of a missing pair, a stand-alone, or part of a long-and-short set. However, I do think it's Chinese, and I think that engraving is a, shall we say, very abstract version of a Chinese dragon head (at least the mane, mouth, and eye).

Neat blade,

F

Gavin Nugent · 2nd September 2009, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy

Were these weapons always used in pairs ? I know, when you see them in Wing Chun, there are two. I compare them with the Japanese sai (but hudiedao are sharp !).

But there is a Japanese weapon called a 'jutte'. Mostly a simple iron bar with 1 hook. A weapon also used for parrying and this weapon was used alone.

Just a thought...could certain types of hudiedao be used in the same way ?

Hi Freddy,

Not always used in pairs.
The knives are used in the same way as the sai, to catch, parry and thrust. These are also used on their own too, most often with a shield in the other hand.
I'll dig up a couple of videos I have in my links somewhere , one shows these standing off with a pair of sai, the other form with a shield.

Gav

Freddy · 3rd September 2009, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebooter

Hi Freddy,

Not always used in pairs.
The knives are used in the same way as the sai, to catch, parry and thrust. These are also used on their own too, most often with a shield in the other hand.
I'll dig up a couple of videos I have in my links somewhere , one shows these standing off with a pair of sai, the other form with a shield.

Gav

Thanks, I would find that most interesting, especially the form with the sword and shield.

KuKulzA28 · 3rd September 2009, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy

Thanks, I would find that most interesting, especially the form with the sword and shield.

I believe I have seen sets of shield and saber practitioners... I have also heard of but not seen sets where a shield is used in conjunction with a short dao, like the baat jaam do, but single. The shield is usually rattan.

Freddy · 3rd September 2009, 07:52 PM

I've been busy.

Would this do as covering for the handle ?

fearn · 3rd September 2009, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuKulzA28

I believe I have seen sets of shield and saber practitioners... I have also heard of but not seen sets where a shield is used in conjunction with a short dao, like the baat jaam do, but single. The shield is usually rattan.

Hi Kukulz,

I'll see if I can find an online picture.

Freddy,

That wrapping might suffice, but I guess the question is why you're wrapping it. It's not quite proper Chinese, but it might do if all you want to do is swing the blade. If this is the case, I'd suggest testing it by working out with the blade, as string wraps can be a real nuisance when they come loose.

The other concern (which I'm sure you've thought about, is that cotton can trap moisture close to the blade and promote rust. Hopefully someone here will have a suggestion about how to prevent that.

Best,

F

Gavin Nugent · 5th September 2009, 05:45 AM

Hi Freddy,

It is not uncommon to wrap the hilts in this manner, Philip Tom has recently commented that in a lot of cases the Dadao were just wrapped with cloth or rope after I asked a question of tangs.
Whilst I aggree it could promote rust, for the price of cord it can be wrapped every 6 months if it saw heavy use, I wouldn't worry about it, a little more moisture wont kill a tang that short and thick, it still has several life times left in it even if soaking wet.
I might put a few more wrapping on it though until it feels nice in the hand and would be harder for the sweat to penetrate..

Gav

2nd September 2009, 05:44 PM	#1
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Could this be considered a hudiedao ? I bought this knife some time ago on ebay. It looked interesting. At that moment, a discussion on hudiedao was held on the forum. In my opinion, this is also a hudiedao. The blade and handle are made from one piece, with a pommel and D-shaped handle attached to it. The handle extends on one side of the blade (back) and ends in what I call a 'snake's head'. I don't see any holes in the tang to retain a handle of some sort. Could it be that the handle was made out of leather or some kind of fabric ? The blade is slender and ends with a sharp point. The handle is aligned to the back of the blade. There's only 1 sharp edge and there are 2 fullers on both sides of the blade. There are also some engravings near the handle, but I can't make out what they are. Total length : 49 cm (19,6 inches Lenght of blade : 35 cm (14 inches) Thickness of blade (near the handle) : 7mm

2nd September 2009, 06:49 PM	#2
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Certainly could be Certainly is a Dao, it doesn't quite look like a pair could sit back to back as the guards is flared both sides. A nice interesting study piece. Most likely a thin wooden hilt slab at one stage of its life and maybe fabric bound. Gav

5th September 2009, 05:45 AM	#10
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Not uncommon. Hi Freddy, It is not uncommon to wrap the hilts in this manner, Philip Tom has recently commented that in a lot of cases the Dadao were just wrapped with cloth or rope after I asked a question of tangs. Whilst I aggree it could promote rust, for the price of cord it can be wrapped every 6 months if it saw heavy use, I wouldn't worry about it, a little more moisture wont kill a tang that short and thick, it still has several life times left in it even if soaking wet. I might put a few more wrapping on it though until it feels nice in the hand and would be harder for the sweat to penetrate.. Gav

2nd September 2009, 08:24 PM	#3
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Were these weapons always used in pairs ? I know, when you see them in Wing Chun, there are two. I compare them with the Japanese sai (but hudiedao are sharp !). But there is a Japanese weapon called a 'jutte'. Mostly a simple iron bar with 1 hook. A weapon also used for parrying and this weapon was used alone. Just a thought...could certain types of hudiedao be used in the same way ?

2nd September 2009, 08:39 PM	#4
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	I'm not sure whether it's part of a missing pair, a stand-alone, or part of a long-and-short set. However, I do think it's Chinese, and I think that engraving is a, shall we say, very abstract version of a Chinese dragon head (at least the mane, mouth, and eye). Neat blade, F

3rd September 2009, 07:52 PM	#8
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	I've been busy. Would this do as covering for the handle ?