Help identify this hanger please!

manokent · 24th October 2012, 05:33 PM

Hello, Can anyone help with identifying this hanger that I recently purchased.
In relic condition it has a cast brass hilt and a curved blade that is just short of 23"- 59cm although this may have been shortened. No markings are visible on the blade due to heavy pitting. The brass quillon (also broken) is stamped with 1 over 1861 date ?? To me this feels older but I would be pleased to hear any comments or views on it.

Thanks,

Mark.

Jim McDougall · 25th October 2012, 05:55 PM

Mark Eley will have the final say on this, but in the interim I would say this is in the range of private contractor cutlasses and hangers British from around 1810 well into the century. These resemble also some of the customs cutlasses as well as the elusive mountain artillery swords used in India around mid century.

manokent · 26th October 2012, 10:29 AM

Thanks Jim, I appreciate the info. I guess that the poor condition of the blade and the lack of any markings will mean that we'll never know for sure.
I saw a similar item ( same size, different hilt ) a while ago that was marked on the blade to an English prison. I had rather hoped that this would be something of this kind.

Thanks Again.

Mark.

M ELEY · 26th October 2012, 11:46 AM

Thanks for the compliment, Jim! Those shoes are too big to fill! Actually, I think you hit this one right on the head when you mention the mountain troop types. Althoug I am of the opinion that ribbed brass hilted cutlass did exist and were used for sea service (Brit Life Guard swords come to mind), if we look closely at this sword, I think it at one time had another branch of the hilt extending down to the outer guards perhaps? Now long ground away. Also, on some of the examples that appeared more naval, the blades were either unfullered or had a single thin fuller running along the flat of the blade from the base of the guard, much as we see on the early Brit and Amer figure-8 hilts ca 1790's. I think this sword is more of an infantry/mountaineer type, based on fuller and time period (first quarter 19th onward). I can't tell if the point was shortened or if it was always a spear-point type blade. This is just guess work, of course, as no real sources exist on the so-called 'private purchase types' used at sea.

Mark

Jim McDougall · 26th October 2012, 04:03 PM

Thanks very much Mark! I was hoping you'd catch this ,Cap'n !!

I agree with the mountain artillery assessment, which are also vaguely documented and seem to have a degree of variation, as in India was of course quite typical in widespread and often remote regions. These were usually, as I understand, carried by havildars of these units, and I have one which is mounted with a M1796 light cavalry blade.
While it is of course pretty tough to accurately place this example in any one category, it is of the type used in these other ranks range circumstances and various auxiliary units, even the Hospital Corps used these kinds of hangers.

manokent · 31st October 2012, 02:51 PM

Many Thanks!

24th October 2012, 05:33 PM	#1
manokent Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 11	Help identify this hanger please! Hello, Can anyone help with identifying this hanger that I recently purchased. In relic condition it has a cast brass hilt and a curved blade that is just short of 23"- 59cm although this may have been shortened. No markings are visible on the blade due to heavy pitting. The brass quillon (also broken) is stamped with 1 over 1861 date ?? To me this feels older but I would be pleased to hear any comments or views on it. Thanks, Mark. Attached Images

25th October 2012, 05:55 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	Mark Eley will have the final say on this, but in the interim I would say this is in the range of private contractor cutlasses and hangers British from around 1810 well into the century. These resemble also some of the customs cutlasses as well as the elusive mountain artillery swords used in India around mid century.

26th October 2012, 10:29 AM	#3
manokent Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 11	Thanks Jim, I appreciate the info. I guess that the poor condition of the blade and the lack of any markings will mean that we'll never know for sure. I saw a similar item ( same size, different hilt ) a while ago that was marked on the blade to an English prison. I had rather hoped that this would be something of this kind. Thanks Again. Mark.

26th October 2012, 11:46 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,101	Thanks for the compliment, Jim! Those shoes are too big to fill! Actually, I think you hit this one right on the head when you mention the mountain troop types. Althoug I am of the opinion that ribbed brass hilted cutlass did exist and were used for sea service (Brit Life Guard swords come to mind), if we look closely at this sword, I think it at one time had another branch of the hilt extending down to the outer guards perhaps? Now long ground away. Also, on some of the examples that appeared more naval, the blades were either unfullered or had a single thin fuller running along the flat of the blade from the base of the guard, much as we see on the early Brit and Amer figure-8 hilts ca 1790's. I think this sword is more of an infantry/mountaineer type, based on fuller and time period (first quarter 19th onward). I can't tell if the point was shortened or if it was always a spear-point type blade. This is just guess work, of course, as no real sources exist on the so-called 'private purchase types' used at sea. Mark

26th October 2012, 04:03 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	Thanks very much Mark! I was hoping you'd catch this ,Cap'n !! I agree with the mountain artillery assessment, which are also vaguely documented and seem to have a degree of variation, as in India was of course quite typical in widespread and often remote regions. These were usually, as I understand, carried by havildars of these units, and I have one which is mounted with a M1796 light cavalry blade. While it is of course pretty tough to accurately place this example in any one category, it is of the type used in these other ranks range circumstances and various auxiliary units, even the Hospital Corps used these kinds of hangers.

31st October 2012, 02:51 PM	#6
manokent Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 11	Many Thanks!