A gun....origin ?

Freddy · 15th January 2010, 02:26 PM

Recently, someone proposed me this gun in a trade. As I know almost nothing about these pieces, I thought it would be wise first to show it to the forum in order to get some opinions.

My guess is that it's oriental. The length is 145 cm and there is a small 'amulet' (?) of animal fur attached to it.

So here are the pics I got :

Jim McDougall · 15th January 2010, 04:34 PM

Hi Freddy,
While I certainly have little knowledge on these type of guns, it seems I have seen something very similar in Vietnamese guns used by 'hill' tribes or Montagnards as they became known . I believe these were a matchlock type gun based on old Chinese forms, though the action on this seems more like a flintlock from what it appears. It always has amazed me that such anachronistic guns were used into recent times, for that matter even present times. I am looking forward to hearing more from our specialists on these regions, but these are my thoughts at cursory glance.

All the best,
Jim

Jim McDougall · 15th January 2010, 05:06 PM

In searching more on these I found the extremely interesting article on the Seven Stars Trading site written by Philip Tom, "Firearms and Artillery in Pre Colonial Vietnam" in which he describes these matchlock guns as 'sung hoa mai'..again this seems a modern version with a flintlock to my untrained eye.
This article is outstanding and the illustration shown of an Chinese individual holding one of these type guns appearing to be from around 19th c. is from this article.

All best regards,
Jim

Rick · 15th January 2010, 07:12 PM

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=vietnam%2A

VANDOO · 15th January 2010, 08:50 PM

I SAW A HUNTER BY THE ROAD WITH A DEER HE HAD KILLED WITH A SIMULAR GUN IN SZECHWAN PROVENCE IN CHINA IN 1995. THEY ARE STILL MADE BY LOCAL VILLAGE SMITHS AND USED IN SOME PARTS OF CHINA TODAY. INTERESTING AND FUNCTIONAL GUNS AND IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW THEIR HISTORY.

Freddy · 16th January 2010, 07:28 PM

Great info, guys. I knew you would find something

My contact told me that there was a part missing on the gun. My next question : would it be easy to replace this ? He has put a match where the missing piece should be.

Here are some additional pics of the piece.

15th January 2010, 02:26 PM	#1
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	A gun....origin ? Recently, someone proposed me this gun in a trade. As I know almost nothing about these pieces, I thought it would be wise first to show it to the forum in order to get some opinions. My guess is that it's oriental. The length is 145 cm and there is a small 'amulet' (?) of animal fur attached to it. So here are the pics I got :

15th January 2010, 04:34 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Hi Freddy, While I certainly have little knowledge on these type of guns, it seems I have seen something very similar in Vietnamese guns used by 'hill' tribes or Montagnards as they became known . I believe these were a matchlock type gun based on old Chinese forms, though the action on this seems more like a flintlock from what it appears. It always has amazed me that such anachronistic guns were used into recent times, for that matter even present times. I am looking forward to hearing more from our specialists on these regions, but these are my thoughts at cursory glance. All the best, Jim Last edited by Jim McDougall; 15th January 2010 at 07:40 PM.

15th January 2010, 05:06 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	In searching more on these I found the extremely interesting article on the Seven Stars Trading site written by Philip Tom, "Firearms and Artillery in Pre Colonial Vietnam" in which he describes these matchlock guns as 'sung hoa mai'..again this seems a modern version with a flintlock to my untrained eye. This article is outstanding and the illustration shown of an Chinese individual holding one of these type guns appearing to be from around 19th c. is from this article. All best regards, Jim Attached Images

15th January 2010, 07:12 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=vietnam%2A

15th January 2010, 08:50 PM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I SAW A HUNTER BY THE ROAD WITH A DEER HE HAD KILLED WITH A SIMULAR GUN IN SZECHWAN PROVENCE IN CHINA IN 1995. THEY ARE STILL MADE BY LOCAL VILLAGE SMITHS AND USED IN SOME PARTS OF CHINA TODAY. INTERESTING AND FUNCTIONAL GUNS AND IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW THEIR HISTORY.

16th January 2010, 07:28 PM	#6
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Great info, guys. I knew you would find something My contact told me that there was a part missing on the gun. My next question : would it be easy to replace this ? He has put a match where the missing piece should be. Here are some additional pics of the piece.