Another bright idea from the big brains at Ebay

[Lew]

Just got email today

In recent weeks fraudulent email offers targeting listings under $200 has surged unacceptably. To keep eBay a top shopping destination we must choose safety over visibility and nip this in the bud. We recognize for some of you this may be an unwelcome limitation but we hope you'll support our putting more muscle into fraud prevention.



I called them up and gave them a piece of my mind. I had the customer rep laughing told him I was out bid on a pair of socks the sold for $1.29 and received a second chance email that I can buy it for .99 cents He agreed that he thinks it's a silly idea but he does not make up their policy


Lew

[spiral]

Soryy Louie I dont understand from your post what have ebay actualy done? Have they banned all second chance offers? if so Is this US only or worlwide? or am i misunderstanding?

Cheers,
Spiral

[Berkley]

Read further - the other shoe dropped:

To protect the Community from this growing safety threat, we have made the decision to mask User IDs for bidders on all auction-style listings on eBay.com and Motors. This change will go into effect later this week. Even with all this history and need, we understand that masking User IDs on all auction-style listings is a significant change, and it this is not a step we are taking lightly. However, in light of today's environment - and the damage fake email offers pose to our members and to overall buyer trust in the marketplace – it's imperative we act now to make this change.

So now, for our own safety, shill bids are permitted/encouraged on all eBay auctions .

[ward]

Why not they raised selling fees 40% and made it so sellers can not leave negative feedback. It is getting very difficult to do business on ebay. Some of their other changes are just as obnoxious.

[katana]

Ebay seems to have lost 'its way'...from its humble beginnings where trust was paramount ...it has grown in a massive marketing machine with new policies that seem to benefit eBay's bank balance.

The real shame is that there isn't another 'big' auction site that could rival eBay. Then buyers and sellers could decide which internet auction site to use... so if people feel new policies were unfair etc they would use the 'other' site....people power.
Unfortunately eBay is almost a monopoly driven by business exec's whom are looking to increase their profits to the detrement of the 'original values' of eBay.

I feel it is becoming riskier to both buy and sell on eBay, hiding ID's will increase that risk ........

[Lew]

Originally Posted by spiral

Soryy Louie I dont understand from your post what have ebay actualy done? Have they banned all second chance offers? if so Is this US only or worlwide? or am i misunderstanding?

Cheers,
Spiral

Spiral

Ebay currently hides all bidder IDs once the item exceeds $200 the new rule basically will hide all bids from $1.00 on up.

Lew

[Rick]

I think things there have gotten to the point where astute Sellers and Buyers will take a seriously long look at further participation on their venue .

I would like to see more Dealers open their own websites .
Speaking for myself I would much rather buy directly from someone I can trust .

[VANDOO]

PERHAPS EBAY IS INFECTED WITH THE SAME FORM OF GREED THAT MANY OTHER AUCTIONS SEEM TO BE ATE UP WITH THESE DAYS.

I SUSPECT IT IS NOT UNUSUAL FOR A AUCTION TO CHARGE THE SELLER 20%OR MORE OF THE SALE PRICE AND PERHAPS A FEE FOR LISTING AND ACCEPTING THE ITEM NOT BEING A SELLER I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CHARGES ARE.

BUT BUYERS ARE CHARGED A 18 TO 20.5% BUYERS PREMIUM FOR THE PRIVILEGE OF BEING ALLOWED TO BUY SOMETHING FROM THE AUCTION. QUITE A PROFIT FOR VERY LITTLE WORK AS FAR AS THE BUYERS AND IF THEY TAKE A LARGER BITE FROM THE SELLER (WHO THEY DO SOME ACTUAL WORK FOR) THEN YOU ARE LOOKING AT A POSSIBLE PROFIT FOR THE AUCTION HOUSE OF 4O TO 50% PERHAPS MORE.

WHEN YOU ADD THE PACKING, SHIPPING ECT WHICH AN INCREASING NUMBER OF ONLINE AUCTIONS LEAVE ENTIRELY UP TO THE BUYER TO ARRANGE WITH NO HELP FROM THEM AS WELL AS A STORAGE CHARGE IF YOUR MERCHANDISE IS NOT PICKED UP IN A SHORT TIME.

IT WOULD APPEAR SOME AUCTIONS EXPECT THE SELLERS TO BE HAPPY WITH ABOUT THE SAME RETURN THEY WOULD GET TAKING THEIR ITEMS TO A PAWN SHOP. PENNYS ON THE DOLLAR FOR THE SELLER AND BIG PROFITS FOR THE AUCTION. A SELLER WILL SEE A HIGHER SALE PRICE ON EBAY OR SOUTHBYS OR CHRISTIES BUT IF MOST OF THE REALIZED PRICE GOES TO THE AUCTION AND YOU END UP WITH WHAT YOU WOULD GET LOCALLY WHY BOTHER WITH THE AUCTION HOUSE?
I HAVE NEVER BOUGHT OR SOLD FROM SOUTHBYS OR CHRISTIES OR SOLD ON EBAY SO DON'T KNOW WHAT THEIR CHARGES ARE BUT JUDGING FROM BUYERS PREMIUMS BEING SO HIGH I EXPECT THEM TO ALSO BE HIGH.

THE NEXT THING WE KNOW EBAY WILL HAVE A BUYERS PREMIUM AS WELL AS APPROVED SHILL BIDDING.

[Rick]

Totally agree with you Barry .
A Seller would do better in our Swap forum .




So would a Buyer .

[kahnjar1]

I can't help thinking that Ebay HAS become a very COMMERCIAL operation and to this extent has lost its way somewhat. The listing fees are in my opinion high and then on top of that there is the so called "success" fee!!
The thing that really leaves me speechless though is the "second chance offer". If one lists an item with a reserve of say $400, it is hardly likely that it will be offered back to the highest bidder at well below the reserve!

We have a VERY successful auction site here in NZ called Trademe (www.trademe.co.nz). Use of this site is restricted to those holding NZ bank accounts, but my point is that although it IS a commercial operation, the charges are sensible, AND you can offer back at YOUR price to bidders/watchers if your item does not reach reserve. Also no sale/no fee rules apply. (Sellers fee is approx 5.9% for general items)
As I write this, there are 69000 people on line with Trademe and there are 1.1 million items for sale. Not bad for a theoretically non international site!!
Check it out--- you can browse without registering.
Regards
Stuart

[A. G. Maisey]

I'm not a buyer, nor a seller on ebay, so maybe some people might think I don't know what I'm talking about.

However, I have bought at normal auctions for more than 50 years.

In my opinion, there is really only one way to buy at auction:- you place your value on the thing being sold and leave your bid with the auctioneer. You do not attend the auction, you do not get involved in bidding wars and you do not have any concern at all as to who else may be bidding.

If the item is worth $100, you calculate your bid to take account of any premiums payable, and you leave your bid with the auctioneer. Simple.

You win some, you lose some, and you need to know the value of what you are bidding on, but you never , ever get emotionally involved. Its just business.

To my way of thinking, ebay is no different:- you decide how much you are prepared to pay and you lodge that bid with ebay. If you have lodged a fair market price bid, you have a fair chance of winning.

If you lose, it doesn't matter, because you were never going to pay more than the item was worth to you anyway.

Shill bids?

Shill bids are only made to suck in people who do not know the value of what they are bidding on.

If you are a fair buyer, you can never really lose by paying a fair price.

However, if you regard auctions as a game to be played for amusement, rather than as a form of business, then yes, hiding buyers' identities might seem a bit like spoiling the game. It comes down to the question of whether buying at auction, whether ebay or a normal type of auction, is a business transaction, or entertainment. If its entertainment then you watch the bids, you note who is bidding you get involved and emotional about the whole thing---like a game of football. But if its business, you name your price and forget about the window dressing.

[Andrew]

As some of you know, at one time I was a huge fan of eBay. Those days have passed.

I rarely buy or sell on eBay today. When I do, I follow Alan's model and use sniping software to place my bid and walk away.

[Lee]

My own view is that ebay got so much so right when it started that it was rewarded with dominance of the online auctions market. It is therefore surprising that they have chosen to demolish some of the most important parts of the foundation they have built upon. But markets have a way of responding, so we may expect in due course to see ebay forfeit its dominance if they do not return from their current downhill path.

Now and then, amid all the junk and fakes, something great does show up on ebay. If I bid, I commit myself to making a single preemptive bid and I make that bid as close as I dare to the cut-off. There will be no second chance if I miss. This strategy gives you your best chance to win the item and to win it at the best possible price.

I suppose one upside to ebay's change is that as we can no longer know if we are bidding against a forum friend, we shall feel less guilt in denying them a bargain. I suppose that is an upside.

While on the subject of auctions, let me share a pet peeve: the buyer's premium. Scum and villainy! It seems pretty clear to me that auctioneers are acting as the seller's agent. Yes, everything does come out of what the buyer pays, but the auctioneers see a psychological advantage is quoting a low seller's premium and then jacking up a buyer's premium. It has even been reported that for big ticket items, major auction houses, to get the consignment, have waived all seller fees and that they have even gone further to 'kick back' some of the buyer's premium. The emergence of buyer's premiums in online autions as a 'tip' to the seller is, in my opinion, reprehensible and thus far I have refrained from participating in such auctions.

[spiral]

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Spiral

Ebay currently hides all bidder IDs once the item exceeds $200 the new rule basically will hide all bids from $1.00 on up.

Lew

Thanks Lew, I understand. O well ebay is not the place it was years ago. I used to enjoy it, but there were more raritys at cheap prices 6 or 7 years ago.

Spiral

[A. G. Maisey]

Lee, I have dealt mainly with one Sydney auction house since I was in high school. Up until perhaps 25 years ago, this organisation charged the seller a 10% commission.

There was no buyer's commission, the operation was plain, simple, no fancy catalogues, no up-market auction rooms. In a word:- basic.

Then they started to get delusions of grandeur, moved out of their dark dusty auction rooms on the edge of Chinatown into a historic building on the edge of the corporate heart of town. Polished floors, elegant lighting, auctioneers in suits and ties.Very beautifully produced catalogues on art paper.Big advertisements in Saturday's newspapers.

Seller's commissions rose, then buyer's commissions were introduced, and over the years it has just got worse. Currently, I think, the seller pays 25%, the buyer pays 22.5%.

I still buy from them. I've never stopped.

But I only ever pay what an item is worth to me. I recently bought an antique Chinese day bed. I knew a new one would cost me about $1500. I would have rather had a new one, than an antique one, so to me, this day bed was worth around $600-700. I lodged a bid of $550 ($550 + 22.5% = $673) with the auctioneer and went home. When I rang back I found I had won the day bed at $450. $450 + 22.5% = $551.Well inside my budget.

What I have found is that all regular buyers at auction adjust their bid downwards to cover the buyer's commission. The only people who do not do this are the occasional buyers who have little or no experience, or who do not have an understanding of the value of something before they start to bid.

I do understand the way in which sniping works on ebay, however, I feel that if you know the value of something, and you are prepared to pay a fair price, then sniping is not necessary. You simply lodge your maximum bid with ebay, and if nobody has placed a higher value on the item, you will win, and ebay will apply sufficient of your maximum bid to allow you to win, even after the auction closes.The whole philosophy of winning at auction is to know the value to you of the item being auctioned, and be prepared to pay that price to buy it. It could well be worth more to somebody else, but that should not concern you:- you have named the maximum amount you are prepared to pay to own the item, and if somebody else is prepared to pay more, well that's up to him.

You do not win at auction if you pay more for something than it is worth to you, and this is what can happen if you do not make an objective evaluation of the object long before any bids are lodged:- you just say "this is worth $X to me", leave your bid, and walk away.

[ward]

I think most of you had better get a slightly more realistic view on how much auctions cost. I have been buying from auctions since I was a child and selling on them when I hit 16. I have had customers in my computer bussiness who were auctioners and have a slightly more realistic view of what a bussiness cost to run. They have to be heavily advertised you have to hire people to run the auction,you have to store the items,you have to clean them,you have to research the item, pay rent, catalogs are what the public wants, you have dead beat buyers. All of this cost real money. Maybe the huge auction houses are making incredible profits but I know most smaller auction houses are not making the dollars you think. Regarding ebay sometimes you do well sometimes not. Yes the auction fees are less but the seller does all the work not the auction house.I have been selling on ebay for a long time and so has charles and a few others ask him how long it takes to set up a auction.
I agree you should come to a auction with a set price of what you are going to pay for a item, but I do that whenever I buy antiques

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by ward

I think most of you had better get a slightly more realistic view on how much auctions cost. I have been buying from auctions since I was a child and selling on them when I hit 16. I have had customers in my computer bussiness who were auctioners and have a slightly more realistic view of what a bussiness cost to run. They have to be heavily advertised you have to hire people to run the auction,you have to store the items,you have to clean them,you have to research the item, pay rent, catalogs are what the public wants, you have dead beat buyers. All of this cost real money. Maybe the huge auction houses are making incredible profits but I know most smaller auction houses are not making the dollars you think. Regarding ebay sometimes you do well sometimes not. Yes the auction fees are less but the seller does all the work not the auction house.I have been selling on ebay for a long time and so has charles and a few others ask him how long it takes to set up a auction.
I agree you should come to a auction with a set price of what you are going to pay for a item, but I do that whenever I buy antiques

Who needs a "more realistic view"? We're talking about internet auctions. Specifically eBay. Forgive me for not feeling bad for that monster.

[ward]

Actually most of what I wrote refered to comments regarding standard auctions I do not have any love for ebay it is a tool I use for selling and if a differnet venue presents itself I would use it along side what I currently use