![]() |
![]() |
#1 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Surabaya - Indonesia
Posts: 199
|
![]()
Hi all
I admit this is a keris for sale but in closed circle here in Indonesia, and this post has no intention whatsoever to boost sales or anything else but what I am interested to discuss is not where and how (and I will keep my mouth shut about it) but about the kinatah this particular blade got additional kinatah during its lifetime - I only seen another keris like this, called Rajah Kalacakra yea, I mean the scorpion - shaped carvings on the blade I only ever seen similar carvings on another blade, which significantly better quality than our sample here. the story goes that the owner got his keris as heritage from his grandfather, who got it from his grandfather. The said keris was born plain, but since his great great grandfather fought well in a battle against the foreigner, the Sultan requested that his keris were carved with scorpions and decorated with gold as symbol of bravery and citation from the king (kinda like medal of honor, I presume) my question is, since I never found similar reference, is it correct ? or perhaps there's another motifs on why there's another carving added later to the blade ? thank you Donny |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 | |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,740
|
![]() Quote:
This story seems to be a variation of the one about Sultan Agung rewarding his war heroes by allowing them to have a carved singa (lion) decorated with gold kinatah on the gandik of their krisses. The kalacakra motif is well-known in Central Java but this one is not very finely made IMO. Regards |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 | |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,097
|
![]() Quote:
As for the quality of the carving for the base of this kinatah, i agree that it is not exceptional. Do you think that is an indication of when it may have been applied. I have seen this symbol before on both new and old blades. David van Duuren shows a blade with scorpion kinatah in "A Critical Bibliography" and better photos of that same keris can be found in the latest addition of Groneman's "The Javanese Kris". Frankly, the carving of that scorpion is even inferior to this one. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben
Posts: 458
|
![]()
Hullo Everybody!
![]() Just a comment from a different perspective: - Rajah=WAQAF/WIQIF/AZIMAH: An inanimate object created by a*person of high spiritual ability; can be decorated with script/symbols/graphics -wrt object of initial post: Kala=kaladjengking=scorpion in defensive stance=symbolising facing a mortal threat; gold/yellow to symbolise power Cakra= symbolises metaphysical energy Sorry to be so brief. Hope it helps. Best, Last edited by Amuk Murugul; 8th November 2016 at 03:59 AM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,843
|
![]()
Whenever we seek to interpret a Javanese symbol there is one thing that must be uppermost in our minds:- Javanese symbolism is multi-symbolism, in other words, the same symbol can mean different things depending upon context.
The Cakra came into Javanese symbolism from India, and even in India it had many interpretations available. At the very beginning it seems to have been a symbol of the Sun, but as time progressed this symbolism diversified and we find it symbolising various other things, in various contexts, both religious and profane. The scorpion motif in Javanese art is a difficult one to understand. I have had a number of different interpretations given to me, but I have yet to find authoritative confirmation of any of these interpretations. I cannot find this motif in ancient art works from the Early Classical, or from the Late Classical, which tends to cause me to believe that in Jawa this motif was inherited from Middle Eastern origins, rather than from Hindu origins. There is a lot of scorpion symbolism in Middle East belief, there is very little scorpion symbolism in Hindu belief. However, the most frequent interpretation that I have had from informants is that the scorpion is a symbol for sex. In India, one of the interpretations of the scorpion motif is also that it represents sex and/or is associated with sex. The Kala Cakra motif is, as Jean remarks, well known in Jawa, not only in Central Jawa, but also in East Jawa, I am uncertain about other parts of Jawa. It is a motif that is believed to possess powerful talismanic qualities, in Javanese such a motif is known as "rajah" (note:- always with the "h"). Those talismanic qualities appear to be quite specific and they provide protection against black magic and against being troubled by creatures from the unseen world. It is important to understand that the name of the motif is two words:- "kala cakra", not one word:- "kalacakra". The actual meaning of "kalacakra" is in fact "The Sun", it is literary usage, it is not found in normal Javanese speech.So, when we consider the name of the motif "Kalacakra" what we have is a motif that represents the Sun, but if the motif is "Kala Cakra" --- well, we have something different. Javanese people love to play with words, and those words do not always mean quite what we may think they mean, but they do mean exactly what the Javanese person wants them to mean. A bit like Humpty Dumpty. But to return to my first paragraph:- Javanese symbolism is multi symbolism, so although the name Kalacakra in fact means The Sun, when we separate that word into its two component parts we have "kala cakra":- "kala" in Javanese means a stinging animal, and in the kala cakra motif that stinging animal is represented by the scorpion, the name of a scorpion in Javanese is "kalajengkring". The cakra has a number of ways in which to understand it, but in the context of its placement on a keris, and its talismanic value, it might be able to be understood as being associated with both The Sun and as the Sudarsono Cakra of Vishnu, which is one of Vishnu's weapons, a discus with serrated edges. In fact, this motif has nothing at all to do with bravery or with warriors, it is pure and simple a protective device against black magic and nasty creatures from the other world. Maybe the Sultan was concerned about the ongoing well being of his subject, so he told him to put this protective motif on his keris to protect his (ie, the Sultan's) valuable asset (ie, the custodian of the keris). But in respect of this particular keris I feel that there are still even more interesting unanswered questions. Edit I just re-read what I have posted here, and I thought I'd better add this clarification of the word "rajah" in Indonesian this word has several meanings:- a design with esoteric qualities, a tattoo, the lines on the palm of your hand in Javanese it means:- a magical drawing, the lines on the palm of your hand, it also has a second meaning --- lust or passion in Balinese (dictionary meaning):-1) to write or draw magically powerful things; 2) to be full of passion for worldly power "rajah" is not an alternate spelling of "raja" in these languages Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 8th November 2016 at 07:39 AM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,740
|
![]()
Thank you Amuk and Alan for these clarifications!
![]() Regards |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,726
|
![]() Quote:
you suggest that this blade is very old, is there any proof for this? And when it is a worthy blade why it's fitted which such a poor mendak and like it seems also poor hilt? To my eyes this blade look rather recent, like always I could be wrong! ![]() Salam, Detlef |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,097
|
![]()
Alan, thank for clearing up issues surrounding the name or names being used to describe this symbol. Since it was presented as a single word (kalacakra) that is how i researched it.
I suspect that the translations you have supplied are correct, though when i search for this word(s) in both Javanese and Bahasa Indonesian (though Javanese is certainly more appropriate for these names, i know) i get virtually the same result. "Kala" is translated as "time" and "cakra" as disc (which, of course, the sun is from our perspective). Of course i do suppose i could see how "Time Disc" could be interpreted as the sun. I don't write this to argue your own translations, merely to point out the reasons for my confusion. ![]() Last edited by David; 8th November 2016 at 05:36 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 | |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,097
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Austria
Posts: 1,903
|
![]()
I guess I don't have to say again that I am a novice in terms of knowledge, but...
... to me this Kris looks very new. ![]() PS: And in the end what is more important, the Kris or the story?! Last edited by mariusgmioc; 9th November 2016 at 09:29 AM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#11 |
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,843
|
![]()
David, yeah, the word was presented as one word in the initial post, so its reasonable that this is the way anybody would start to look for it.
Malay (B.I) and Javanese are like other languages in that a word meaning very often depends on context.When I check my dictionaries I find this:- In Javanese "kala" can mean:- time, season, last, past, a bird trapping noose on a long handle, a stinging animal. It also forms compounds with other words, as the first syllable, for example --- kalacakra : The Sun In B.I."kala" can mean:- time, period, era, age, tense (gram.), scorpion, Scorpio, mare. Again, there are compounds. In Balinese:- time, when, while, ogre, demon,Shiva. Again, there are compounds. Cakra In Javanese "Cakra" can mean:- a round frame, a mythical arrow, a diacritic mark indicating "R" in Javanese script. + compound words. In B.I.:- Vishnu's mythical weapon In Balinese:- wheel, circle, Shiva's weapon, the sign for conjunct "R" after a consonant, vulva,. + compound words In Old Javanese cakra can mean :- wheel, discus, a type of duck In Old Javanese kala can mean:- evil, contemptible, dishonest, fraudulent, deceitful, a type of trumpet, scorpion,. There are also compound words, and the same word stressed in different ways, in fact in Zoetmulder there are a couple of columns devoted to "kala" and its associated words. All the stuff above was lifted from dictionaries, but only one for each language. I believe that if I referred to my other Javanese dictionaries I would find more meanings. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 9th November 2016 at 12:08 AM. Reason: correction |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Surabaya - Indonesia
Posts: 199
|
![]()
I do agree that the keris looked new, I suspect kamardikan
however it's refreshing to read all of your comments, it opened a new horizon for me many thanks Donny |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|