Unknown Armourer's Mark

stephen wood · 5th May 2010, 09:09 PM

I found this mark on an old (heavily patinated) and rather short-bladed (32") Kaskara. I have not seen one which seemed quite so old before...

It started life somewhere in Europe, found its way to Africa and has now returned.

I have posted here as I am certain that the blade is European and wonder if anyone recognises the mark which is stamped on both sides in the fuller.

Many thanks

Jim McDougall · 6th May 2010, 11:44 PM

The marking is 'Italianate' as seen used in a number of variations in the 16th century, and apparantly picked up in Passau and Solingen on blades of the 17th century. As often the case, these do not seem specific to particular maker, and used in correspondence with 'quality' and guild marks.

stephen wood · 7th May 2010, 02:35 AM

...thanks for your reply Jim.

I was able to find something similar here

When I recently took it to an Arms Fair in London most people who saw it thought it looked older than most kaskaras. It had been said by Christie's to be '1780's or earlier' according to its previous owner.

It may have been shortened at some time but if so this was very long ago.

Also two structural anomalies stand out:

- the pommel is wooden covered with leather rather than the more usual coiled leather strip.

- the blade is not recessed into a slot in the crossguard.

Jim McDougall · 7th May 2010, 04:20 AM

My pleasure Stephen.
I agree the blade does seem an earlier European, probably Solingen as noted, blade. The upper part of the blade seems unusually constricted, perhaps a sign of shortening, and this blade does appear quite old, though it would be hard to say ...certainly 18th century is quite likely.
As far the structural anomolies, these blades were remounted many times in their working lives, through many generations. It seems typically such remounting took place during the change of hands. More modern mounting seems likely to have been varied in application not necessarily in strict accord with earlier practices.
You seem to really have established an outstanding spectrum of kaskaras as seen by the great examples you've posted. Thank you for keeping them coming.

Best regards,
Jim

stephen wood · 7th May 2010, 04:35 AM

...actually, comparing the condition of blade and crossguard, I would say that they had been together a long time. Also, there is little if any trace of filing on the guard - this has become one of my dating touchstones. In fact, the guard itself exhibits its own anomalies - not diamond sectioned and with a curious bulbous quality above the langet.

Jim McDougall · 7th May 2010, 04:52 AM

Good observations, and there is a definite advantage to hands on examination of a weapon. With the number of curious exceptions to the many variations in often subtle degree on these hilts, it seems that there must have been understandable differences with the innovation and/or skill of the armourers. It would be great if it were possible to ascribe certain hilt characteristics to regions, but aside from broad applications it seems pretty unlikely. I think the closest has been Reed, who has reasonably identified the Darfur types.

5th May 2010, 09:09 PM	#1
stephen wood Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 227	Unknown Armourer's Mark I found this mark on an old (heavily patinated) and rather short-bladed (32") Kaskara. I have not seen one which seemed quite so old before... It started life somewhere in Europe, found its way to Africa and has now returned. I have posted here as I am certain that the blade is European and wonder if anyone recognises the mark which is stamped on both sides in the fuller. Many thanks Attached Images

7th May 2010, 02:35 AM	#3
stephen wood Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 227	...thanks for your reply Jim. I was able to find something similar here When I recently took it to an Arms Fair in London most people who saw it thought it looked older than most kaskaras. It had been said by Christie's to be '1780's or earlier' according to its previous owner. It may have been shortened at some time but if so this was very long ago. Also two structural anomalies stand out: - the pommel is wooden covered with leather rather than the more usual coiled leather strip. - the blade is not recessed into a slot in the crossguard. Attached Images

6th May 2010, 11:44 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,943	The marking is 'Italianate' as seen used in a number of variations in the 16th century, and apparantly picked up in Passau and Solingen on blades of the 17th century. As often the case, these do not seem specific to particular maker, and used in correspondence with 'quality' and guild marks.

7th May 2010, 04:20 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,943	My pleasure Stephen. I agree the blade does seem an earlier European, probably Solingen as noted, blade. The upper part of the blade seems unusually constricted, perhaps a sign of shortening, and this blade does appear quite old, though it would be hard to say ...certainly 18th century is quite likely. As far the structural anomolies, these blades were remounted many times in their working lives, through many generations. It seems typically such remounting took place during the change of hands. More modern mounting seems likely to have been varied in application not necessarily in strict accord with earlier practices. You seem to really have established an outstanding spectrum of kaskaras as seen by the great examples you've posted. Thank you for keeping them coming. Best regards, Jim

7th May 2010, 04:35 AM	#5
stephen wood Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 227	...actually, comparing the condition of blade and crossguard, I would say that they had been together a long time. Also, there is little if any trace of filing on the guard - this has become one of my dating touchstones. In fact, the guard itself exhibits its own anomalies - not diamond sectioned and with a curious bulbous quality above the langet.

7th May 2010, 04:52 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,943	Good observations, and there is a definite advantage to hands on examination of a weapon. With the number of curious exceptions to the many variations in often subtle degree on these hilts, it seems that there must have been understandable differences with the innovation and/or skill of the armourers. It would be great if it were possible to ascribe certain hilt characteristics to regions, but aside from broad applications it seems pretty unlikely. I think the closest has been Reed, who has reasonably identified the Darfur types.