A large pira

DaveS · 13th December 2013, 08:53 PM

I picked up this Pira a while back. it is the biggest one that i have seen.
The blade is 24 inches long, almost 3/8ths of an inch thick at the base and
30 inches overall. Blade is laminated along the cutting edge. As far as age,
i think it might be from the middle 30's with the scabbard probably at least
2nd W.W. Any ideas..........Dave.

CharlesS · 13th December 2013, 09:11 PM

Dave,

Thanks for posting. These are always so nice to see because not only are they rare but it is becoming clearer that there are variations in size, hilt form, and scabbard type.

Could you please post a pic of the complete blade, perhaps with the scabbard beside it.

Do you think the pommel may have been cut down from something much longer originally, perhaps to make it a more practical utilitarian piece??

Thanks again for posting. Lovely example!

imas560 · 13th December 2013, 09:36 PM

Nice,
how thick is that spine?

Jim McDougall · 13th December 2013, 10:45 PM

A beautiful piece Dave! For those of us here not familiar with this sector of arms, can you say more on the regions and tribes who might have used these? I know you have specified the age as around 1930s up to WWII, but could the blade be older and remounted as with most ethnographic forms?

DaveS · 13th December 2013, 11:14 PM

Charles: I don't think that the pommel has been cut down. I can't see any
evidence of that, and the patina on the wood looks the same. If
it was cut down it must have been shortly after it was originally
carved. You are right. I have seen so many variations in different
swords and knives in almost 29 years of collecting that i'm not
surprised at any kind of variation seen. I think today many col-
lectors think that if something dosn't follow a set pattern that it
must be either recent or a tourist piece.
Imas560: The thickness at the base of the blade is not quite 3/8ths
of an inch. The blade is a little bit more heavier in the hand than
some other moro pieces i have held.
Jim: I'm not sure which group originally used the pira, but i seem
to have a recollection that it was the Yakans. Not positive
though............Dave.

imas560 · 14th December 2013, 01:18 AM

Apologies Dave,
you did mention thickness in originating post, I just got excited and looked at the pictures

Rick · 14th December 2013, 02:04 AM

Did I miss a full picture of this piece unsheathed somewhere ?

C'mon, take that pretty dress off .

Spunjer · 14th December 2013, 02:44 AM

Beautiful pira! To answer your question, Jim, pira are exclusively Yakan, an indigenous tribe from Basilan. Yeah, Dave, would love to see the shape of the blade. Question tho: do you think the scabbard is original to the blade?

DaveS · 14th December 2013, 04:49 AM

Spunger: Yeah, there is no doubt that the scabbard was made for this
blade. Whether or not it was made as a later replacement i can't
Tell. Tomorrow i"ll try to post a picture of the blade next to the
scabbard and i will do that from now on, as it does give a better
perspective.........Dave.

Jim McDougall · 14th December 2013, 03:06 PM

Dave and Spunjer, thank you guys for responding to my questions. It truly does give me and others not familiar with these forms some perspective to what is obviously an attractive and interesting weapon.

DaveS · 14th December 2013, 09:26 PM

A couple more pictures that Charles requested of the pira next to the
scabbard. Sorry, but i didn't get the whole thing in. I also took a closeup
of a woven rattan belt loop closer. I can't remember seeing one like this
before unless i just wasn't paying close attention and missed it.....Dave.

Sajen · 14th December 2013, 10:04 PM

Hello Dave,

nice pira you have there, congrats. Is the ferrule from silver?

Regards,

Detlef

DaveS · 14th December 2013, 10:59 PM

Hi Detlef: Yes it's silver, with a small piece of horn between the pommel
and the ferrule..........Dave.

Spunjer · 15th December 2013, 01:47 AM

wow, that's a long one! now that's a pira. it always boggles me why the drastic transition, shape wise, form the older type to this style. nevertheless, it's beautiful! thanks for posting this, Dave.

CharlesS · 15th December 2013, 03:56 PM

Here is another pira for comparison. This one is just 26in. overall, with a 17in. pattern welded blade.

DaveS : The wood hilt/pommel is the same type of wood as yours. This particular one has an unusual nuance just above the grip. Were it not there it would be a more typical pira pommel. Perhaps you can see why I suggested that yours might have been cut down to make it a more practical utilitarian piece rather than just a weapon.

I love these. They are very atypical to most Moro blades.

ThePepperSkull · 19th December 2013, 07:54 AM

Officially the biggest blade I've seen of the newer form Pira. Colour me jealous, it's beautiful!

I have a similar one, I think made around the same time as yours. 18 inch blade with a thick spine as well. Will post pics soon.

DaveS · 19th December 2013, 08:43 AM

Charles: I had a barong that i sold a number of years ago that had a
Pommel exactly like yours, a large upturned bunti wood one. Wish
i could remember who i sold it to. Would like to buy it back....Dave.

CharlesS · 19th December 2013, 01:26 PM

Dave:

Ha ha!! you sold it to me years ago while I was out visiting Phil!! See this thread:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=pir-rong

No worries. It is still here and much loved!

DaveS · 19th December 2013, 11:04 PM

Charles: So it was you!!!!!!!!!!. Well, It really couldn't have a better home.
I'm glad that someone now owns it that has a real appreciation of
these things. Why don't you come out in March and see Phil and
Then come visit Lonna and me at the Pasadena Knife Show.
Dave.

CharlesS · 21st December 2013, 01:29 PM

Dave,

I sent you an email....did you get it??

DaveS · 22nd December 2013, 06:59 AM

Charles: Got it. Just replied........Dave.

13th December 2013, 08:53 PM	#1
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	A large pira I picked up this Pira a while back. it is the biggest one that i have seen. The blade is 24 inches long, almost 3/8ths of an inch thick at the base and 30 inches overall. Blade is laminated along the cutting edge. As far as age, i think it might be from the middle 30's with the scabbard probably at least 2nd W.W. Any ideas..........Dave. Attached Images

13th December 2013, 11:14 PM	#5
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	A large pira Charles: I don't think that the pommel has been cut down. I can't see any evidence of that, and the patina on the wood looks the same. If it was cut down it must have been shortly after it was originally carved. You are right. I have seen so many variations in different swords and knives in almost 29 years of collecting that i'm not surprised at any kind of variation seen. I think today many col- lectors think that if something dosn't follow a set pattern that it must be either recent or a tourist piece. Imas560: The thickness at the base of the blade is not quite 3/8ths of an inch. The blade is a little bit more heavier in the hand than some other moro pieces i have held. Jim: I'm not sure which group originally used the pira, but i seem to have a recollection that it was the Yakans. Not positive though............Dave.

14th December 2013, 04:49 AM	#9
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	A large pira Spunger: Yeah, there is no doubt that the scabbard was made for this blade. Whether or not it was made as a later replacement i can't Tell. Tomorrow i"ll try to post a picture of the blade next to the scabbard and i will do that from now on, as it does give a better perspective.........Dave.

14th December 2013, 09:26 PM	#11
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	More pira pictures A couple more pictures that Charles requested of the pira next to the scabbard. Sorry, but i didn't get the whole thing in. I also took a closeup of a woven rattan belt loop closer. I can't remember seeing one like this before unless i just wasn't paying close attention and missed it.....Dave. Attached Images

14th December 2013, 10:59 PM	#13
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	A large pira Hi Detlef: Yes it's silver, with a small piece of horn between the pommel and the ferrule..........Dave.

13th December 2013, 09:11 PM	#2
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Dave, Thanks for posting. These are always so nice to see because not only are they rare but it is becoming clearer that there are variations in size, hilt form, and scabbard type. Could you please post a pic of the complete blade, perhaps with the scabbard beside it. Do you think the pommel may have been cut down from something much longer originally, perhaps to make it a more practical utilitarian piece?? Thanks again for posting. Lovely example!

13th December 2013, 09:36 PM	#3
imas560 Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 180	Nice, how thick is that spine?

13th December 2013, 10:45 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	A beautiful piece Dave! For those of us here not familiar with this sector of arms, can you say more on the regions and tribes who might have used these? I know you have specified the age as around 1930s up to WWII, but could the blade be older and remounted as with most ethnographic forms?

14th December 2013, 01:18 AM	#6
imas560 Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 180	Apologies Dave, you did mention thickness in originating post, I just got excited and looked at the pictures

14th December 2013, 02:04 AM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,294	Did I miss a full picture of this piece unsheathed somewhere ? C'mon, take that pretty dress off .

14th December 2013, 02:44 AM	#8
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	Beautiful pira! To answer your question, Jim, pira are exclusively Yakan, an indigenous tribe from Basilan. Yeah, Dave, would love to see the shape of the blade. Question tho: do you think the scabbard is original to the blade?

14th December 2013, 03:06 PM	#10
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	Dave and Spunjer, thank you guys for responding to my questions. It truly does give me and others not familiar with these forms some perspective to what is obviously an attractive and interesting weapon.

14th December 2013, 10:04 PM	#12
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,794	Hello Dave, nice pira you have there, congrats. Is the ferrule from silver? Regards, Detlef

15th December 2013, 01:47 AM	#14
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	wow, that's a long one! now that's a pira. it always boggles me why the drastic transition, shape wise, form the older type to this style. nevertheless, it's beautiful! thanks for posting this, Dave.

15th December 2013, 03:56 PM	#15
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Here is another pira for comparison. This one is just 26in. overall, with a 17in. pattern welded blade. DaveS : The wood hilt/pommel is the same type of wood as yours. This particular one has an unusual nuance just above the grip. Were it not there it would be a more typical pira pommel. Perhaps you can see why I suggested that yours might have been cut down to make it a more practical utilitarian piece rather than just a weapon. I love these. They are very atypical to most Moro blades. Attached Images

19th December 2013, 07:54 AM	#16
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	Officially the biggest blade I've seen of the newer form Pira. Colour me jealous, it's beautiful! I have a similar one, I think made around the same time as yours. 18 inch blade with a thick spine as well. Will post pics soon.

19th December 2013, 08:43 AM	#17
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	A large Pira Charles: I had a barong that i sold a number of years ago that had a Pommel exactly like yours, a large upturned bunti wood one. Wish i could remember who i sold it to. Would like to buy it back....Dave.

19th December 2013, 01:26 PM	#18
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Dave: Ha ha!! you sold it to me years ago while I was out visiting Phil!! See this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=pir-rong No worries. It is still here and much loved!

19th December 2013, 11:04 PM	#19
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	A large pira Charles: So it was you!!!!!!!!!!. Well, It really couldn't have a better home. I'm glad that someone now owns it that has a real appreciation of these things. Why don't you come out in March and see Phil and Then come visit Lonna and me at the Pasadena Knife Show. Dave.

21st December 2013, 01:29 PM	#20
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Dave, I sent you an email....did you get it??

22nd December 2013, 06:59 AM	#21
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	A large pira Charles: Got it. Just replied........Dave.