BOX-LOCK CONCEALED TRIGGER TURN OFF FOR ID

Fernando K · 26th December 2012, 11:50 AM

Hello:

This is a pocket pistol, box lock, retractable trigger, with a turn off barrel . Lacks any manufacture or proof marks.
With a .50 caliber, the barrel measures 4.3 cm. and the total length is 16 cm. The engraving has been done with punches.

Affectionately. Fernando K

Hola:
Se trata de una pistola de bolsillo, llave de caja, gatillo escamoteable, y cañon desenroscable. Carece de toda marca de fabricación o de Banco de Pruebas. El calibre es de .50 y mide, de largo total, 16 cm. y el cañon mide 4,3 cm. El grabado ha sido realizado con punzones.

Afectuosamente. Fernando K

Fernando K · 26th December 2012, 11:54 AM

Moore pics:

Fernando K · 26th December 2012, 12:44 PM

Moore pics:

M ELEY · 27th December 2012, 09:45 AM

Sweet! A very nice Queen Anne twist barrel small pocket pistol, ca 1780-1800. The so-called Queen Anne pistols became popular just after her reign, roughly 1710-1800. Styles of this pistol even managed to make it into the early 19th, as I've seen ones with percussion cap locks. There was a larger version that was popular among naval officers (See 'Weapons of the American Revolution' by Warren Moore, for similar). The smaller ones also had naval use, often being carried in captain's "great pockets" while they wnet ashore. Officers returning from abroad walking through tight alleys to the local tavern were occasionally set upon by thieves. They used a twist tool to remove the barrel end in order to load the ball and powder direct. Some are plain, while many possess inlaid silver wire decoration/patterns in thier grips. I have a smaller one like this with a longer cannon-barrel barrel, but lack the original crank tool to remove it.

gbxfb · 27th December 2012, 12:39 PM

Hello Fernando,

From your pictures you have a nice example of an English style boxlock pocket pistol. In the smaller
sizes these concealed trigger examples are often referred to as muff pistols.

Whilst your pistol seems characteristically English in form and style of decoration the absence of clear
proof marks and a retailers or makers name is perplexing. Proof was a legal requirement and this was
strictly enforced. This may indicate continental manufacture in the English style or it is just an anomaly
such as an apprentice piece.

This type of pistol was produced in vast quantities by the London, Birmingham and provincial trade. They
were very popular as their basic boxlock actions were cheap to make whilst their turn off barrel loading
with an over sized ball gave considerable force to the shot. Deliberate aimed shooting was impossible
with the cock in the line of sight but this mattered little at short range or when the mere sight of a pistol
was deterrent enough.

This style of pistol is sometimes confused with the Queen Anne pistol. The true Queen Anne pistol has a
side mounted cock distinctive curving frizzen spring and the characteristic elaborate baluster turned cannon
barrel. Although this form of cannon barrel is sometimes fitted to the best quality boxlocks.

I would date your pistol to circa 1800. The stepped junction at the grip and action can be indicative of the
earliest period of manufacture of the boxlock around 1750 but the plain barrel and general form suggest a later period.
These pocket pistols continued to be manufactured with precussion locks well into the 19th century.

I hope this is useful.

Best regards,
Simon.

fernando · 27th December 2012, 05:27 PM

Great input Simon; a comprehensive description.
Ye, most probably Liege production. Although in Belgium they (also) used to apply a proof mark, by the time this pistol was made such proof marks system was not yet consolidated.
It is good to see that its barrel still turns off, something that so often doesn't occur.
Just a little note: although visibly this is not a Queen Anne pistol, the boxlock system was also widely used in such pistols, between 1750-1780. Actualy at a certain stage their production even exceeded that of side cock.

dana_w · 27th December 2012, 10:33 PM

Simon is spot on. Thanks for the input.

gbxfb · 28th December 2012, 12:33 PM

Thank you Fernando and Dala for your kind comments.

I would agree that boxlock actions were incorporated into Queen Anne style pistols from the mid 1700s the pivotal
emphasis being very much on the word style.

The later boxlocks can only ever be considered stylistically similar to the earlier very distinct form of pistol which
modern collectors have classified as Queen Anne. This distinction is reflected in the considerable differential between
prices realised for such pistols when compared to that of a later "in the style of" boxlock.

The boxlock whilst being both simple in design and compact did have certain limitations and was generally considered
for use on relatively inexpensive pistols, even when offered by the best makers.

Best regards,
Simon.

fernando · 28th December 2012, 05:48 PM

Thank you for your new input, Simon

It is visible that you know a lot more about these weapons than i do, who only once had a rather fine Queen Anne type specimen, eventualy witrh a side feather spring lock.
My only book about these pistols is John W.Burgoyne's work, from which i took my previous posted observation. However it is this same author who says that box lock examples showed a a continuation of the very high standard of craftmanship and decoration observed with conventional Queen Anne style pistols. Many examples continued to have silver munted buttcaps and estucheons and the use of silver wire was common ...
You will now understand that i was influenced to have a distinct perspective of the box lock version in these pistols.

26th December 2012, 11:50 AM	#1
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 669	BOX-LOCK CONCEALED TRIGGER TURN OFF FOR ID Hello: This is a pocket pistol, box lock, retractable trigger, with a turn off barrel . Lacks any manufacture or proof marks. With a .50 caliber, the barrel measures 4.3 cm. and the total length is 16 cm. The engraving has been done with punches. Affectionately. Fernando K Hola: Se trata de una pistola de bolsillo, llave de caja, gatillo escamoteable, y cañon desenroscable. Carece de toda marca de fabricación o de Banco de Pruebas. El calibre es de .50 y mide, de largo total, 16 cm. y el cañon mide 4,3 cm. El grabado ha sido realizado con punzones. Afectuosamente. Fernando K Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 27th December 2012 at 05:03 PM.

26th December 2012, 12:44 PM	#3
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 669	Moore pics: Attached Images

27th December 2012, 12:39 PM	#5
gbxfb Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 11	Boxlock pocket pistol Hello Fernando, From your pictures you have a nice example of an English style boxlock pocket pistol. In the smaller sizes these concealed trigger examples are often referred to as muff pistols. Whilst your pistol seems characteristically English in form and style of decoration the absence of clear proof marks and a retailers or makers name is perplexing. Proof was a legal requirement and this was strictly enforced. This may indicate continental manufacture in the English style or it is just an anomaly such as an apprentice piece. This type of pistol was produced in vast quantities by the London, Birmingham and provincial trade. They were very popular as their basic boxlock actions were cheap to make whilst their turn off barrel loading with an over sized ball gave considerable force to the shot. Deliberate aimed shooting was impossible with the cock in the line of sight but this mattered little at short range or when the mere sight of a pistol was deterrent enough. This style of pistol is sometimes confused with the Queen Anne pistol. The true Queen Anne pistol has a side mounted cock distinctive curving frizzen spring and the characteristic elaborate baluster turned cannon barrel. Although this form of cannon barrel is sometimes fitted to the best quality boxlocks. I would date your pistol to circa 1800. The stepped junction at the grip and action can be indicative of the earliest period of manufacture of the boxlock around 1750 but the plain barrel and general form suggest a later period. These pocket pistols continued to be manufactured with precussion locks well into the 19th century. I hope this is useful. Best regards, Simon.

28th December 2012, 12:33 PM	#8
gbxfb Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 11	Queen Anne style boxlocks Thank you Fernando and Dala for your kind comments. I would agree that boxlock actions were incorporated into Queen Anne style pistols from the mid 1700s the pivotal emphasis being very much on the word style. The later boxlocks can only ever be considered stylistically similar to the earlier very distinct form of pistol which modern collectors have classified as Queen Anne. This distinction is reflected in the considerable differential between prices realised for such pistols when compared to that of a later "in the style of" boxlock. The boxlock whilst being both simple in design and compact did have certain limitations and was generally considered for use on relatively inexpensive pistols, even when offered by the best makers. Best regards, Simon.

26th December 2012, 11:54 AM	#2
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 669	Moore pics:

27th December 2012, 09:45 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,099	Sweet! A very nice Queen Anne twist barrel small pocket pistol, ca 1780-1800. The so-called Queen Anne pistols became popular just after her reign, roughly 1710-1800. Styles of this pistol even managed to make it into the early 19th, as I've seen ones with percussion cap locks. There was a larger version that was popular among naval officers (See 'Weapons of the American Revolution' by Warren Moore, for similar). The smaller ones also had naval use, often being carried in captain's "great pockets" while they wnet ashore. Officers returning from abroad walking through tight alleys to the local tavern were occasionally set upon by thieves. They used a twist tool to remove the barrel end in order to load the ball and powder direct. Some are plain, while many possess inlaid silver wire decoration/patterns in thier grips. I have a smaller one like this with a longer cannon-barrel barrel, but lack the original crank tool to remove it.

27th December 2012, 05:27 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Great input Simon; a comprehensive description. Ye, most probably Liege production. Although in Belgium they (also) used to apply a proof mark, by the time this pistol was made such proof marks system was not yet consolidated. It is good to see that its barrel still turns off, something that so often doesn't occur. Just a little note: although visibly this is not a Queen Anne pistol, the boxlock system was also widely used in such pistols, between 1750-1780. Actualy at a certain stage their production even exceeded that of side cock.

27th December 2012, 10:33 PM	#7
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 429	Simon is spot on. Thanks for the input.

28th December 2012, 05:48 PM	#9
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you for your new input, Simon It is visible that you know a lot more about these weapons than i do, who only once had a rather fine Queen Anne type specimen, eventualy witrh a side feather spring lock. My only book about these pistols is John W.Burgoyne's work, from which i took my previous posted observation. However it is this same author who says that box lock examples showed a a continuation of the very high standard of craftmanship and decoration observed with conventional Queen Anne style pistols. Many examples continued to have silver munted buttcaps and estucheons and the use of silver wire was common ... You will now understand that i was influenced to have a distinct perspective of the box lock version in these pistols.