Talismanic brass "kerises"

jagabuwana · 24th January 2019, 12:14 AM

Hi all,

I have some questions about small, talismanic kerisses made of brass that I've seen in Indonesia, specifically Java.

They're generally quite small compared to the conventional kris made of steel and nickelous iron, maybe about a hand length, and seem to be made of brass or a similar coloured material.

Some are said/believed to be old or pusaka items, while others are believed to be made and bought or circulated in the modern era. The old or pusaka ones, like conventional kerisses, are often obtained by supernatural means or circumstances, and those who have them don't seem to distinguish between the kind of power that these brass ones possess versus talismanic tosan aji.

I haven't been able to find much information about these brass talismans. Some questions:

1) When did these talismans start appearing?

2) Do these items have any place, or any attention or acknowledgment paid to them, among those institutions and people that are deemed to be authorities in keris and tosan aji?

I had more questions prior to writing this but I've had a mind blank! Interested to hear your thoughts.

EDIT: I should add that the ones I'm thinking of aren't the single-piece brass ones that are carved or shaped to resemble a keris.
I refer to ones where there is a brass blade (either straight or with luks), and both the wilah and what would be the gonjo is one piece, with greneng carved in. All that I've come across have wooden sheaths and handles.

David · 24th January 2019, 02:19 AM

When you say "brass" keris the only ones i am familiar with are the little token keris that are often sold as talismans. What you describe sounds a bot different. Photographs would be helpful to the discussion. I will assume that you don't mean these which are basically souvenirs.

jagabuwana · 24th January 2019, 10:42 AM

They may as well be little souvenirs. Attached photo is a pretty good example
of I'm referring to, if you can imagine it being about 10-15cm in length.

David · 25th January 2019, 01:24 AM

While i haven't usually seen them in wooden dress like that i am afraid that this is not a serious member of the keris family.
That said, you can take ANY object and imbue it with spiritual meaning and purpose if you have the will to. But i don't believe these are the kind of objects we really need to be talking about in this forum.

jagabuwana · 25th January 2019, 07:36 AM

Keris-like objects indeed. Fair enough, David

Pusaka · 26th January 2019, 01:16 AM

I think this Besi Kursani is more complex then brass.

jagabuwana · 26th January 2019, 02:26 AM

Interesting.

Though the most I can find about besi kersani is that it's probably a copper alloy of some sort but has some sort of relevance to some Islamic mystic beliefs.

Pusaka · 26th January 2019, 12:02 PM

I would not be surprised if some examples had a composition similar to Tibetan Thokcha because there is frequent suggestion that one major ingredient of besi kersani is meteorite.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thokcha

24th January 2019, 12:14 AM	#1
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 281	Talismanic brass "kerises" Hi all, I have some questions about small, talismanic kerisses made of brass that I've seen in Indonesia, specifically Java. They're generally quite small compared to the conventional kris made of steel and nickelous iron, maybe about a hand length, and seem to be made of brass or a similar coloured material. Some are said/believed to be old or pusaka items, while others are believed to be made and bought or circulated in the modern era. The old or pusaka ones, like conventional kerisses, are often obtained by supernatural means or circumstances, and those who have them don't seem to distinguish between the kind of power that these brass ones possess versus talismanic tosan aji. I haven't been able to find much information about these brass talismans. Some questions: 1) When did these talismans start appearing? 2) Do these items have any place, or any attention or acknowledgment paid to them, among those institutions and people that are deemed to be authorities in keris and tosan aji? I had more questions prior to writing this but I've had a mind blank! Interested to hear your thoughts. EDIT: I should add that the ones I'm thinking of aren't the single-piece brass ones that are carved or shaped to resemble a keris. I refer to ones where there is a brass blade (either straight or with luks), and both the wilah and what would be the gonjo is one piece, with greneng carved in. All that I've come across have wooden sheaths and handles.

24th January 2019, 02:19 AM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	When you say "brass" keris the only ones i am familiar with are the little token keris that are often sold as talismans. What you describe sounds a bot different. Photographs would be helpful to the discussion. I will assume that you don't mean these which are basically souvenirs. Attached Images

24th January 2019, 10:42 AM	#3
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 281	They may as well be little souvenirs. Attached photo is a pretty good example of I'm referring to, if you can imagine it being about 10-15cm in length. Attached Images

25th January 2019, 01:24 AM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	While i haven't usually seen them in wooden dress like that i am afraid that this is not a serious member of the keris family. That said, you can take ANY object and imbue it with spiritual meaning and purpose if you have the will to. But i don't believe these are the kind of objects we really need to be talking about in this forum.

25th January 2019, 07:36 AM	#5
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 281	Keris-like objects indeed. Fair enough, David

26th January 2019, 01:16 AM	#6
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	I think this Besi Kursani is more complex then brass.

26th January 2019, 02:26 AM	#7
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 281	Interesting. Though the most I can find about besi kersani is that it's probably a copper alloy of some sort but has some sort of relevance to some Islamic mystic beliefs.

26th January 2019, 12:02 PM	#8
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	I would not be surprised if some examples had a composition similar to Tibetan Thokcha because there is frequent suggestion that one major ingredient of besi kersani is meteorite. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thokcha