Unknown French Sword

[corrado26]

I hope that someone here is able to help. The identification of this obviously French sword from the time of the Revolution is very difficult. It ressambles the swords of the Ecole du Mars, but has a much simpler hilt and the scabbard is totally different. First thought that this could be an altered sword of the Ecole du Mars is certainly wrong - in this case there should be traces of manipulation at the hilt, but there is nothing to be seen. The wooden scabbard is covered with light brown, but rather aged velvet. As there are no rings or a hook at the scabbard I suppose that this sword has been worn by aid of a leather device.

The total length is 620 mm, the blade is 485 mm and has a width of 47 mm. The total weight is 1,282 g. Such a piece is neither drawn by Aries nor in the book of Buigné. So I hope that some French collectors can help

[Jim McDougall]

I would look forward to hear views also from those here who specialize in French arms. This example has the distinctive features of the cadets sword from the Ecole du Mars (1794) including the Phrygian cap symbolic of liberty used in the Revolution, so of course thought would be simply a less embellished variant.

There are any number of speculations that might be plausible as this weapon does maintain that Phrygian cap distinctly so possibly a sidearm for organized units of Revolutionaries? perhaps fashioned by makers of the original Ecole swords?

[Battara]

Looks similar to French artillery swords of the mid 1800s

[Peter Hudson]

Here it is...Please see https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/539235755356190900/ Interesting with its apparent Nimcha style Quillons and hand guard.

Regards,
Peter Hudson.

[corrado26]

Sorry, but this is another sword and well known and in use by the guys of the military school of St.Cyr. The piece in question is an other thing, compare the hilt and the scabbard, which are completely different.

[Peter Hudson]

Good point and I saw some variants with and without quillons and handguiard...and suspect the sword in various similar forms appeared over about 20 or 30 years ..

Please see https://tresors.nice.fr/oeuvre/glaiv...l'attester. [/B] from which I QUOTE." The students of the Ecole de Mars are equipped with a uniform and an antique saber inspired by short, straight Roman swords. An iron and brass weapon that is more decorative than functional, its design is sometimes attributed to Jacques-Louis David, although none is known to attest to this. If the name of the artist has been put forward, it is probably because of the costume projects he produced in 1794 at the request of the Committee of Public Safety, thus fulfilling a wish of the Popular and Republican Society of the Arts in clothing material. David's proposal for the military dress will be copied to provide the uniform for the students of the School of Mars. The weapon consists of a straight two-edged blade and a brass handle, molded and chiselled with ribbed scales, which ends in a dome. Three curved iron quillons stand out from a rectangular crosspiece under which appears a Phrygian cap in relief. The scabbard, consisting of two wooden splints, is covered with red cloth. It ends with a rectangular brass leaf trim decorated with seven-stranded palmettes and a wider, rounded dart decorated with a ribbed palm. The iconography of the sword is scarce, it appears at the earliest in an Academy of a pupil of the School of Mars, painted around 1796 by an anonymous artist from the group known as the "Primitives". In the 19th century, the Pre-Raphaelite painter John Everett Millais (1829-1896), represented him in a painting entitled The Romans leaving Britain exhibited at the Royal Academy in 18653. The subject of the work, inspired by Raphael Holinshead's Chronicles of the History of England (1577) has as its theme the departure of the Roman legions at the end of the period of occupation of the British Isles. Authentic, reconstructed or adapted for other uses, several swords are known in museums, such as the one in the old collections of the Château de Malmaison which was worn by the actor François-Joseph Talma (1763-1826). Work restored in 2007 by the Olivier Morel workshop".UNQUOTE.

[corrado26]

Originally Posted by Peter Hudson

Authentic, reconstructed or adapted for other uses, several swords are known in museums, such as the one in the old collections of the Château de Malmaison which was worn by the actor François-Joseph Talma (1763-1826). Work restored in 2007 by the Olivier Morel workshop"

This is a very interesting hint! Thank you.

[kronckew]

The Ecole de Mars sword is one of the ugliest swords I've ever seen. It's better off without the silly iron guard pieces tacked on. Bet they snap off easily The scabbard makes it even worse - it must weigh a ton. Would hate being a student forced to carry one.The OP's one above looks almost useable. Must have been modified to look better.

[Dmitry]

CORRADO26, if you rely on your experience and intuition (based on seeing your input here over time, I am certain you are savvy collector), does the sword look "period"? The scabbard is not interesting, but if the sword is authentic, it's a good historical find.
Obviously you are aware that this type of hilt has been many times duplicated, and used for theatrical and societal purposes.
For instance, I've attached a scan of a page from the early 20th c. Henderson-Ames Company catalogue of masonic implements, namely for the IOOF (International Order of Odd Fellows). While not an exact sibling of the Ecole De Mars sword, it's nevertheless a blood relative.

[corrado26]

Originally Posted by Dmitry

does the sword look "period"?
.

Yes, after my opinion the sword is certainly made during the revolution, and as I wrote in my first post there are absolutely no signs that there have been iron guards before which had been tacked off later. But as I learnt by the answers here I now think it has been made outside the needs of the Ecole de Mars for an until now unknown purpose.

[Dmitry]

On my recent visit to Madrid, I spied several very similar swords in a painting at the Prado.
It's the DEATH OF VIRIATUS by Jose de Madrazo, p.1807, a monumental-scale painting in the very popular then neoclassical style, influenced by the likes of David, Gros, Roques, etc.
The iconography is typical of the Greco-Roman hero worship pieces, and includes the implements of war, of which these swords are integral.
i thought that colleague Corrado26 may find this interesting. Even the scabbards are well-copied from the props the artists had available to him.

[corrado26]

Many thanks for showing me this painting with the swords. It is really interesting and demonstrates for which purpose these swords perhaps have been made and have been in use.

[Gavin Nugent]

I'll be honest, I've no real confirmation about what this is or was or maybe, but under a personal feel lens I see this as having quite decent age to it.

What I struggle with is the scabbard fittings and the peening of the tang, I've come to expect better of the French makers of the day and feel this may be something else completely.

I looked through every page of Christian Aries work on the subject of swords and only a single entry was noted for the anything similar, a type already presented.

What I didn't know which was interesting, is the extra quillons seen on the Ecole de Mars sword was actually based on the Moroccan Nimcha/Saif... and that they made a model with the same hilt too... one I have never seen in the market...

An interesting thing to ponder over.

Gavin

[kronckew]

The Ecole Nimcha version looks a lot classier and more realistic than the 'official' botch job.