New Member, New Keris

[shadejoy]

Hello forum members,

This is Peter, I've just recently found an interest in Keris not too long ago, back in last September while visiting Bali and upon searching for local antiquities.

I have a couple of Kerises that I want to share with you: the Carito Keprabon Luk 11 of Pajang era (1568-1586 CE) and 1800s Singa Barong Luk 5 with Kanjeng Kyai Pamor (Prambanan Meteorite).

But for introduction, I will share you the Carita Keprabon in this thread while creating a new thread later on for Singa Barong

The Carito (or Carita) dapur models (there are several different kinds of keris Carito) is a typical dapur of the keraton of Yogyakarta. It was a very popular dapur in the early Mataram era, and the model has influenced the later dapur Sabuk Inten.

Both the Carito and Sabuk Inten kerises are similar in meaning, for they are mainly aimed at wealth increase and prosperity. I purchased this Keris (Carita Keprabon) from an abdi dalam (an ordained member, or royal servant) in the keraton (royal palace) of Yogyakarta through a seller.

To this day, Kerises are regularly cleansed in various rituals performed at the Keraton. Upon receiving the Keris, it did and still does have a mild flowery scent to it. It is possible to confirm that this Keris have been used for similar purposes, and thus is considered sacred pusaka (heirloom) item.

This keris has Pedaringan Kebak pamor. The meaning of this type of pamor (pedaringan kebak) is basically surplus of wealth. It can be roughly translated as 'a shed stuffed with rice'. This pamor is very similar to Wos Wutah, but Pedaringan Kebak is of a much higher quality and thus is more difficult to forge, for the motif is more refined than that of Wos Wutah.

Pedaringan Kebak is made using the 'mlumah' forging technique, which is more time consuming than the more commonly used 'miring' forging technique. For the rest it is classed as pamor tiban, which means that this pattern is not intentionally created by the empu, but merely is a 'by-product' of the extensive forging process.

The keris comes with a traditional hand-carved Timåhå wooden sheath, also known as warangka Branggah Yogyakarta.

I appreciate the comments and for authenticating my descriptions.

Thank you all.

[David]

Welcome to the forum Peter.
I will wait for others to comment on some of your details here. I will pass on a saying we use around here often though. Buy the keris, not the story.
I would not get too attached to the idea that this is somehow a keris connected to the keraton, for instance. The use of scented oil on keris is quite common and does not necessarily indicate such any such connection. Keris salesman in Indonesia will attach many different tales to their wares to boost their sales. What you do certainly have here is an authentically old keris. I sincerely doubt, however, that anyone can pinpoint the date of such an old keris to an 18 year period of time.
Better photos would be nice for better identification. It appears to me that your wrongko was once a ladrang style that has been greatly reshaped, probably due to damage to the original form.
I look forward to seeing your keris singo, but would not hold on to the hope that it has used pamor from the Prambanan meteorite. Such material was reserved for truly high level court pieces. If indeed you have one of those you are a lucky man.

[Sajen]

Welcome to the forum Peter!

Would like to see better pictures of your keris. But you are wrong in matters of the sheath. This sheath form is called tanggalan and attributed to the sultanate of Demak. And I also don't think that the sheath is a reshaped ladrang sheath like David assumed.

Regards,

Detlef

[shadejoy]

Interesting, aside from my obvious puny of a talent in photography, I'm afraid I'm also a terrible sucker at Javanese history. The philosophy in the Keris itself, how it's made and the intricate meanings of its shapes and pamors, etc that make me fall in love.

This pamor (Pedaringan Kebak) indeed has a subtle/soft tone to it. The Keris itself has thin blade and is also very light in my opinion.

Please point me where exactly do you want me to take a better close-ups at and I will give all my might to comply.

[Sajen]

Here my example with a tanggalan wrongko.

[shadejoy]

To tell you the truth, I care less about the sheath but not to say that the choice of warangka doesn't have any importance to the overall Keris itself.

I'm now even more curious, is there any significance meaning between different warangkas according to Keris custom?

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by shadejoy

To tell you the truth, I care less about the sheath but not to say that the choice of warangka doesn't have any importance to the overall Keris itself.

Hello Peter,

here what you have written in post # 1 of this thread:

The keris comes with a traditional hand-carved Timåhå wooden sheath, also known as warangka Branggah Yogyakarta.

I appreciate the comments and for authenticating my descriptions.

Regards,

Detlef

[David]

Originally Posted by shadejoy

To tell you the truth, I care less about the sheath but not to say that the choice of warangka doesn't have any importance to the overall Keris itself.

I'm now even more curious, is there any significance meaning between different warangkas according to Keris custom?

In Jawa specifically there are sheaths for formal dress wear (Ladrang) as well as everyday use (Gayaman) and some folks also have certain sheaths just for storage. Traditionally i am not sure if a reshaped wrongko like the one this keris is in would be culturally acceptable for public wear, but perhaps someone here would know the answer to that.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by David

In Jawa specifically there are sheaths for formal dress wear (Ladrang) as well as everyday use (Gayaman) and some folks also have certain sheaths just for storage. Traditionally i am not sure if a reshaped wrongko like the one this keris is in would be culturally acceptable for public wear, but perhaps someone here would know the answer to that.

Hello David,

like written before, I don't think that the wrongko in question is a reshaped one but a taggalan wrongko but to be certain we will really need better pictures.
For wrongko or warangka tanggalan see "Ensiklopedi Keris", page 458/459.

Regards,

Detlef

[Marcokeris]

I agree to Sajen 100%
Peter is possible to see the top the blade?
Thanks

[David]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello David,

like written before, I don't think that the wrongko in question is a reshaped one but a taggalan wrongko but to be certain we will really need better pictures.
For wrongko or warangka tanggalan see "Ensiklopedi Keris", page 458/459.

Regards,

Detlef

You might be correct on that Detlef. From the provided image i just can't tell.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by David

You might be correct on that Detlef. From the provided image i just can't tell.

Yes, you are correct, we need better pictures. From the provided pictures we also can't confirm if we have a Carita Kebrabon here.
But I am nearly sure that it will not be possible to see by this worn condition of the blade a very fine wos wutah pamor.

[shadejoy]

Originally Posted by David

In Jawa specifically there are sheaths for formal dress wear (Ladrang) as well as everyday use (Gayaman) and some folks also have certain sheaths just for storage. Traditionally i am not sure if a reshaped wrongko like the one this keris is in would be culturally acceptable for public wear, but perhaps someone here would know the answer to that.

Hiya Dave,

Interesting indeed. If I were an Abdi Dalem, I surely wouldn't want to catch myself 'dressed' in a t-shirt during palace ceremonies.

I am almost positive that Bali has its own style of sheath compare to its Javanese counterpart. But is there any difference of ladrang and gayaman from Solo and Yogyakarta?

[shadejoy]

Originally Posted by David

You might be correct on that Detlef. From the provided image i just can't tell.

Noted, here are (I hope..) the better pics of the sheath.

I also can't tell as I am truly clueless whether the Wrangka had been reworked or not. But the wrangka is definitely similar to Detlefs.

And lastly, the wrangka has a peculiar wood grain pattern. I think it's what people call as 'Pelet'. The many shapes and figures of Pelets are supposed to signify something, if I'm not mistaken.

~Peter

[shadejoy]

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

I agree to Sajen 100%
Peter is possible to see the top the blade?
Thanks

Absolutely, but I must ask you to please excuse the quality of the pictures. Amateurish is an overstatement of my photographic skills.

The Wilah and the pamor seem to split at the edge of the Keris. I wonder if it's due to frequent acid exposure.

[shadejoy]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Yes, you are correct, we need better pictures. From the provided pictures we also can't confirm if we have a Carita Kebrabon here.
But I am nearly sure that it will not be possible to see by this worn condition of the blade a very fine wos wutah pamor.

It is similar to wos wutah, but the pamor on this Keris doesn't disperse in several groups and it covers almost the entire surface of the blade. The hue or contrast between the pamor and wilah is a lot less forceful than wos wutah, it really has a very soft tone. I'm sorry my friend, but I have to insist that this one is definitely Pedaringan Kebak.

Attached is the picture of another Keris that I have which Wos Wutah pamor.

However, I would really like to know whether this Keris is indeed a Carita Keprabon. What would be the things to look at?

[A. G. Maisey]

This keris may have been a carita keprabon once, but regrettably the degree of erosion is now too great to permit anybody to say with certainty what the dhapur may have been before it lost so much detail.

The classification of Pajang I cannot confirm from these photographs,the pawakan does resemble Pajang in some respects, but in my opinion insufficiently so to permit agreement with this classification. Additionally, I cannot see any pamor akhodiyat in the blade, which is one of the gold-seal tells for Pajang.

Possibly not a bad start to a collection but I'd be inclined to take the description provided in Indonesia with a large grain of salt.

Oh yes, the pamor.

Mlumah means "laying down" and is the usual type of pamor that is made, examples of mlumah pamor are wos wutah, ngulit semangko, udan mas. Its an easy type of pamor to make. Miring pamor means "sideways", and to make this you start with the mlumah pamor billet and then forge the grain so it is at 90 degrees to the core of the blade when put in place. Miring pamor is difficult and expensive to make, and is the type of pamor used in all the great motifs, such ron duru, adeg, ganggeng kanyut etc.

[David]

Originally Posted by shadejoy

I am almost positive that Bali has its own style of sheath compare to its Javanese counterpart. But is there any difference of ladrang and gayaman from Solo and Yogyakarta?

Yes, thought they both take pretty much the same form there are proportional difference which become quite obvious after you compare examples.

[David]

Thanks for the new photos of the sheath. I can now withdraw my thought that the sheath is a reshaped Ladrang wrongko. I concur with others that this is a tanggalan wrongko.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by shadejoy

It is similar to wos wutah, but the pamor on this Keris doesn't disperse in several groups and it covers almost the entire surface of the blade. The hue or contrast between the pamor and wilah is a lot less forceful than wos wutah, it really has a very soft tone. I'm sorry my friend, but I have to insist that this one is definitely Pedaringan Kebak.

Attached is the picture of another Keris that I have which Wos Wutah pamor.

However, I would really like to know whether this Keris is indeed a Carita Keprabon. What would be the things to look at?

Hello Peter,

my understanding of pamor P.K. is a very fine pamor wos wutah which covers nearly the entire surface of the blade, look for example the in post # 1 shown example from Marco in this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=pedaringan
Frankly said is the blade of your keris so worn that it is IMHO not possible to say if we have here a Pedaringan Kebak pamor, could be or could not be.
Maybe Alan can enlighten us.

Regards,

Detlef

[Sajen]

Double post, sorry.

[A. G. Maisey]

You're right Detlef, we can't call this pamor pedaringan kebak, but it might have been once, as with the dhapur, I simply cannot tell, because the blade is too worn. I believe that more than a few of us have experienced the extravagant descriptions of Indonesian purveyors of keris. Its just part of the process of education. All education costs money, and education in the keris is no different.

[Sajen]

Thank you Alan.

Hello Peter,

two other observations. First, by your later and much better pictures you can see that the blade isn't original to this scabbard. The "mouth" was made smaller with help from some sort of filler.
Second, the mendak isn't a Yogya one.
I really doubt that a keris like this coming from an abdi dalam. He will fit his keris with an adequate mendak and when the scabbard of his keris is broken he will let made a new one for the blade and don't let refit an old one.

Like Alan I know that purveyors in Indonesia are very imaginative by creating storys when they want to sell something (and not only in Indonesia).

Sorry to speak open words to you and I hope you haven't pay to much for this keris. You have a nice and somewhat rare sheath form, a very nice mendak and so far I can see a nice hilt. The weakest part of this ensemble is indeed the blade.

Don't worry, we all have learned the hard way.

Best regards,

Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

Detlef, I am more than prepared to accept that this keris originated with an abdi dalem.

I do not know the Ngayogyakarta situation, but I do know the Surakarta situation very well.

The people who occupy the position of adbi dalem in the karaton are a mix of people who are representative of the wider community. The work they do in the karaton is voluntary, and even when they rise to a high level in the hierarchy of the karaton the stipend that they receive is miniscule. Essentially, these are people who have strong traditional ties and commitments and who want to support the karaton and the continuation of Javanese tradition. In my experience, most of these people are most definitely not wealthy in the slightest degree.

In Solo there are always a number of abdi dalem, some of whom do have royal blood or impressive titles, who are amateur keris dealers. I can guarantee you that a visitor to the Karaton Surakarta who wants to buy a genuine old Majapahit era keris that has royal provenance will have not the slightest difficulty in acquiring one. All he needs to do is to let it be known. The seller will get hold of some degraded old keris from the alun-alun, or Pasar Triwindu, and present it with a story, and the deal is done. The keris will have come from the royal armory, or from some notable person, a certificate of authenticity will be arranged from some other abdi dalem at an inflated price.

Alternatively the keris might form a part of a multiple swapsi-changey deal where the seller has the opportunity to sell two or three items that progress in a chain resulting in eventual sale of the keris.

The Javanese people have had a very long time to develop the skills of manipulation for monetary reward. A thousand years ago they needed to manipulate their rulers in order to survive and prosper. Then the Dutch came along and they honed their skills on them. Then international tourism resulted in a flood of millionaires with their pockets full of money --- don't forget, we're all millionaires in the perception of people who have to live on less than $100 a month.

Probably the best way for a visitor to Jawa to look at a deal with a local is that he has made a contribution to the upkeep of a family for a few weeks or months. Its in the nature of a charitable donation.

But if the visitor is not willing to make a charitable donation, it is best that as a minimum he learn Bahasa Indonesia, and do some very serious study of the culture and society of Jawa before he visits.

[Marcokeris]

Originally Posted by shadejoy

Absolutely, but I must ask you to please excuse the quality of the pictures. Amateurish is an overstatement of my photographic skills.

The Wilah and the pamor seem to split at the edge of the Keris. I wonder if it's due to frequent acid exposure.

Thanks Peter

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Detlef, I am more than prepared to accept that this keris originated with an abdi dalem.

I do not know the Ngayogyakarta situation, but I do know the Surakarta situation very well. ..........

So could this part of the story Peter was told true.

Alan, I really like your explanations like this. It is like a film for my imagination.

Regards,

Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

Thanks for your compliment Detlef.

Yes, I'm quite prepared to accept the possibility that there was an abdi dalem somewhere in the deal. Most of these stories have a grain or two of truth in them.

[shadejoy]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Thank you Alan.

Hello Peter,

two other observations. First, by your later and much better pictures you can see that the blade isn't original to this scabbard. The "mouth" was made smaller with help from some sort of filler.
Second, the mendak isn't a Yogya one.
I really doubt that a keris like this coming from an abdi dalam. He will fit his keris with an adequate mendak and when the scabbard of his keris is broken he will let made a new one for the blade and don't let refit an old one.

Like Alan I know that purveyors in Indonesia are very imaginative by creating storys when they want to sell something (and not only in Indonesia).

Sorry to speak open words to you and I hope you haven't pay to much for this keris. You have a nice and somewhat rare sheath form, a very nice mendak and so far I can see a nice hilt. The weakest part of this ensemble is indeed the blade.

Don't worry, we all have learned the hard way.

Best regards,

Detlef

No no, you have all of my gratitude.

The Keris is without a doubt very old, as I mentioned earlier, to me the blade is real thin and fragile. The only way to make certain of things is really by getting your hand on it. I spent about $300 on this Keris and to tell you the truth, I'm not that upset. This Keris is one of the first set of collections that I have. As Alan said, education does not come cheap And I try to be grateful of what I have.

My contact has very good relationship to a couple of Surakartan Abdi Dalems and a Yogyakartan ..or so he claimed. And he seems to be pretty vocal in the Keris world. He mentioned that he'd receive an honorary title (KRT) from the Sultan sometime next year.

Alan, that is some intricate way of doing business But I can imagine that in the third world country.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by shadejoy

No no, you have all of my gratitude.

The Keris is without a doubt very old, as I mentioned earlier, to me the blade is real thin and fragile. The only way to make certain of things is really by getting your hand on it. I spent about $300 on this Keris and to tell you the truth, I'm not that upset. This Keris is one of the first set of collections that I have. As Alan said, education does not come cheap And I try to be grateful of what I have.

Hello Peter,

yes, this blade has without doubt age. And I belive you that the blade is thin now. Good that you haven't pay to much.

Best regards,

Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

Peter, what I have outlined is quite straightforward from a Javanese point of view.

When one engages in any sort of transaction with a Javanese person one can rely on the fact that nothing will be as it might seem to be, and that nothing will be presented directly and openly, but rather it will be introduced at an angle, very often from behind and unexpectedly.

This is a general rule that applies in all transactions. To act in any other way is not the social norm. Gratuitous truth is avoided at all costs. Never, ever tell the truth if it can be avoided.

An example:-

Pak Wanda meets his next door neighbour walking along the road towards town.

"Good morning! What news?"
"Good Morning. I'm OK. Yourself?"
"I'm OK. Where are you going?"
"To the post office."
"OK, take it easy. See you later"

In fact Pak Wanda's neighbour was off to the market to buy some manggis.

Very uncool to be open, honest, and tell the truth.

This social norm comes across into all dealings with Javanese people, especially business dealings.

The general impression that a Javanese person seeks to create, most especially with any outsider is one of refined, non-committed warmth. They smile, they are complimentary, they are gentle and helpful. It is only when one is accepted as a part of a Javanese family and community that one comes to understand the true Javanese nature, which can be bad tempered, volatile and highly emotional. In fact, just like ordinary people anywhere, but it is very uncool to let the world see who you really are. You keep your true emotions hidden.

If one wishes to do business in Jawa, or get involved in any other way with Jawa, it is a very good idea to either spend an extended period of time in Jawa before spending any money or investing any emotion, or perhaps do a degree majoring in Javanese sociology.