Opinions on this sword please

RhysMichael · 1st June 2006, 01:17 PM

This sword was on an ebay auction that ended early ( it is not an active auction , the ebay page has been removed and at the time of this posting the sword was not relisted) . Before I bid on it so it is certainly my loss. The seller listed it as a parang naibor. I wrote to him and told him I thought ( and still do ) that the sword is aceh ( atjeh ). Please give me your thoughts on if you agree or disagree. To me the hilt is a classic sumatran naga but the blade is identical to those seen on many peudeueng peusangan particularly those with a hulu tumpang beunteung

Here is the sword that was on ebay

Now for reference one of the swords I am basing this premise on, a peudeueng peusangan with a hulu tumpang beunteung

I look forward to your thoughts and opinions.

VVV · 1st June 2006, 02:12 PM

Let's agree that it's not a Parang Nabur.
But that kind of Pedang is tricky because they are found all over the archipelago.
In the Leiden catalogues on Borneo they have documented three of those swords as collected in Borneo. And they can also be found on other islands, f.i. quite often on Lombok and Bali.
If they were imported, or locally made, is impossible to answer.
Several blades from other regions has especially been found on Borneo. Malay immigrants to Borneo obviously kept their original weapons.
Based on that most of those Pedang has been collected in east of Sumatra I find it probable that they also originated there. But of course it could also be that they were more popular in that region?
I haven't seen that many of them with that kind of hilt collected in Aceh?
Also, a part of the blade that doesn't look like typical Aceh (= could be, but not that common) is the tip?

Michael

RhysMichael · 1st June 2006, 04:27 PM

Michael
Thanks for the reply I also have never seen this hilt on Aceh swords, I have seen several swords with this blade style attributed to Aceh, I am looking for some of the pictures I had of them ( of course Aceh was also an area of a great deal of trade and I do not know if those swords actually started thier lives in Aceh or elsewhere) . I agree that this type of tip is often seen on other pedang from the area also. I do not have access to the catalogues from RMV Leiden, but from what little I can get online, with my almost non-existant knowledge of the language it looks like the collections there are large. Typically I have also seen this type of hilt attributed to Sumatra, can you let me know what other places it is also found
Thanks
John

VVV · 1st June 2006, 04:53 PM

John,

In larger volumes this hilt is also found on Bali and Lombok.
But now and then they show up all over the archipelago, like in this case.
I agree that this blade form is mostly found on Aceh swords. But the tip variation on this Pedang is strange and the blade form slightly resembles other Borneo swords (usually without a fuller and with a cut neck before the hilt).
So maybe the blade could even have been produced in Borneo?
Or it could have been put together of different imported parts?
The scabbard doesn't look like traditional Aceh for this kind of blade?

Michael

1st June 2006, 01:17 PM	#1
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	Opinions on this sword please This sword was on an ebay auction that ended early ( it is not an active auction , the ebay page has been removed and at the time of this posting the sword was not relisted) . Before I bid on it so it is certainly my loss. The seller listed it as a parang naibor. I wrote to him and told him I thought ( and still do ) that the sword is aceh ( atjeh ). Please give me your thoughts on if you agree or disagree. To me the hilt is a classic sumatran naga but the blade is identical to those seen on many peudeueng peusangan particularly those with a hulu tumpang beunteung Here is the sword that was on ebay Now for reference one of the swords I am basing this premise on, a peudeueng peusangan with a hulu tumpang beunteung I look forward to your thoughts and opinions. Last edited by RhysMichael; 1st June 2006 at 01:29 PM.

1st June 2006, 02:12 PM	#2
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Let's agree that it's not a Parang Nabur. But that kind of Pedang is tricky because they are found all over the archipelago. In the Leiden catalogues on Borneo they have documented three of those swords as collected in Borneo. And they can also be found on other islands, f.i. quite often on Lombok and Bali. If they were imported, or locally made, is impossible to answer. Several blades from other regions has especially been found on Borneo. Malay immigrants to Borneo obviously kept their original weapons. Based on that most of those Pedang has been collected in east of Sumatra I find it probable that they also originated there. But of course it could also be that they were more popular in that region? I haven't seen that many of them with that kind of hilt collected in Aceh? Also, a part of the blade that doesn't look like typical Aceh (= could be, but not that common) is the tip? Michael Last edited by VVV; 1st June 2006 at 02:30 PM.

1st June 2006, 04:27 PM	#3
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	Michael Thanks for the reply I also have never seen this hilt on Aceh swords, I have seen several swords with this blade style attributed to Aceh, I am looking for some of the pictures I had of them ( of course Aceh was also an area of a great deal of trade and I do not know if those swords actually started thier lives in Aceh or elsewhere) . I agree that this type of tip is often seen on other pedang from the area also. I do not have access to the catalogues from RMV Leiden, but from what little I can get online, with my almost non-existant knowledge of the language it looks like the collections there are large. Typically I have also seen this type of hilt attributed to Sumatra, can you let me know what other places it is also found Thanks John

1st June 2006, 04:53 PM	#4
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	John, In larger volumes this hilt is also found on Bali and Lombok. But now and then they show up all over the archipelago, like in this case. I agree that this blade form is mostly found on Aceh swords. But the tip variation on this Pedang is strange and the blade form slightly resembles other Borneo swords (usually without a fuller and with a cut neck before the hilt). So maybe the blade could even have been produced in Borneo? Or it could have been put together of different imported parts? The scabbard doesn't look like traditional Aceh for this kind of blade? Michael