Türckische Cammer in Dresden

Tatyana Dianova · 14th April 2010, 05:28 PM

Here is a link to the video about the Türckische Cammer:
http://www.skdmuseum.de/en/museums-i...mer/index.html
I think that the opening of this permanent exhibition in Dresden is a unique event and I am really happy about it.

RSWORD · 15th April 2010, 01:11 AM

Thank you for sharing the link. Would love to visit this exhibition. Just the video preview alone made my mouth water from all the beautiful swords, guns, etc. And the provenance can't get any better! Well worth a visit to view quality early material!

Battara · 15th April 2010, 03:46 AM

Love the stuff! Vielen Dank!

ariel · 15th April 2010, 12:59 PM

I got the book. Gorgeous thing. But I was disappointed: virtually all swords show only handles and fragments of scabbards. Only a couple of daggers and only one saber ( a gorgeous Tatar one!) show full blades. It is more an art book than a sword one.
Also, interestingly, the blades are very clean, well polished but none are etched. Most of them must be wootz-y, but nobody bothered to reveal the pattern. Was it a philosophy of the museum or just naivete?

Tatyana Dianova · 15th April 2010, 02:28 PM

There are two books really: the full catalogue and a shorter paperback edition. I am going to look through them (and buy one) at the museum in the nearest future. I hope that in the large book full blades will be shown more frequently...
You will find no wootz pattern on any of the blades in this collection, that's true... I think it has something to do with the museum conservation methods. But no rust either :-) Interesting, that Japanese blades from the same period in the same museum still show their hamon and hada...

ALEX · 15th April 2010, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

... the blades are very clean, well polished but none are etched. Most of them must be wootz-y, but nobody bothered to reveal the pattern. Was it a philosophy of the museum or just naivete?

The same is in Wallace Collection, which hosts magnificent Indo Persian arms, some are of such great wootz that it can be seen even on thoroughly polished blades. Simple reason - when collections were formed, the European taste was exclusively towards brightly polished blade, and ALL swords were treated equally i.e. polished bright. Later, when collection became a National Trust, any modification to any object became not easy thing to do. The curators are most certainly aware of wootz and how to reveal it, but all they can apply to a blade without being fired is wax, not acid:-) I am sure one day the blades will be etched and wootz revealed.
By the way, Wallace Collection is working on a new book covering ALL Islamic weapons in their Oriental Rooms. It WILL be a fantastic cataloque for sure. The work has already begun and we will see it in a year or two.

Tatyana Dianova · 16th April 2010, 08:17 AM

Great news, Alex!

Tatyana Dianova · 19th April 2010, 10:22 AM

I’ve visited finally the Türckische Cammer in Dresden. It features a really fantastic collection of Ottoman arms: most of them are pretty early and almost all of them are really beautiful ‘high-end’

arms. There are dozens of breathtaking swords and guns, and almost each of the pieces featured there is a masterpiece, so you'll definitely need a lot of time for viewing. It is a really amazing exhibition and it is worth a visit in any case!

Now to what I didn’t like there. The light is very poor, i.e. it is completely dark in the rooms, and the pieces, which are hidden deep into the glass cabinets, are quite dimly highlighted with spot lights. I understand that it is made from the conservation point of view, but for example the decoration of the blades is barely visible. Some blades from this exhibition were featured earlier in the Dresdner Armoury in the old-style exposition and were seen many times better… You’ll definitely have to take good spectacles with you (if needed) and you’ll feel the desire to use a binoculars and a flashlight as well

The usual museum writings belonging to objects are also almost non-existent, so you have to take someone really knowledgeable with you; otherwise you’ll get more questions than answers from this exposition :-) Or you may buy beforehand a full exhibition catalogue and take it with you inside (don’t forget the flashlight

)

Now to the catalogue
http://www.amazon.de/Die-T%C3%BCrcki...1660791&sr=8-1
and the book
http://www.amazon.de/Turkish-Chamber-Oriental-Splendour-Dresden/dp/3422069143/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_6
The catalogue is a magnificent hard cover volume with the descriptions (pretty well made, incl. Arabic translations) and pictures of all ca. 370 items on the exhibition. I think that it is a ‘must buy’ book for everybody interested in Ottoman arms (and art) considering its price, even if you do not understand German. The paperback book is much smaller, and first I thought I may spare on it, but the selected 50 items which are featured there are described and pictured more detailed than at the catalogue, so finally I have bought both of them

Ariel is right that in most cases the full length blades are not shown, but I believe it was made because of the superb hilts and the limited page quantity in each of the books. Remember, that the Manoucher’s attempt to put all pictures of a sword on one page was criticized quite often? The best example of pictures in arms book I know is one of the books about a Moscow Kremlin armoury where each (!) item had four (!) full pages.

I hope it was of any help – and sorry for my English

Dmitry · 22nd July 2010, 08:21 PM

HOLGER SCHUKELT - TURKISH CHAMBER: ORIENTAL SPLENDOUR IN THE DRESDEN ARMOURY is available at the Metropolitan Museum Book Store/Gift Shop, for $40. That's where I got mine. Book covers the select 50 pieces from the Armoury holdings, not just swords, but the horse tack, etc.
I will not disagree that the sword photos could be better represented. However, for $40 it's a definite buy.

ariel · 23rd July 2010, 12:42 AM

Tatyana,
I have the "book".
Am I to understand that the "catalogue" is bigger, shows more examples and is more detailed?
Should I buy it as well?

Tatyana Dianova · 23rd July 2010, 08:55 AM

Tha catalogue is a FULL catalogue of the collection, featuring all the items there (ca. 370). It is a very large and heavy volume, a VERY good and professionally written Ottoman arms reference book, that you SHOULD definitely buy, especially if you consider its price.
But please do not think that it will have better or more detailed pictures, or longer descriptions than the smaller English book. In reality, the smaller book features 50 selected objects and has more info and bigger pictures for each of them than in the catalogue. So I think that you should definitely buy both

ariel · 23rd July 2010, 01:22 PM

Ordered it. Based on your recommendation, I am $68 poorer and 320 objects richer.
Thank Heavens the descriptions in the catalogue are short and not informative: otherwise, I would have had an irresistible urge to learn German.

Thanks, Tatyana!

Tatyana Dianova · 23rd July 2010, 08:45 PM

I am afraid, you will have to learn German

ariel · 23rd July 2010, 08:52 PM

Danke...

Dmitry · 23rd July 2010, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALEX

By the way, Wallace Collection is working on a new book covering ALL Islamic weapons in their Oriental Rooms. It WILL be a fantastic cataloque for sure. The work has already begun and we will see it in a year or two.

That is great news indeed. The only book I have on the Islamic and Indian weapons in the Wallace Collection is a 1914 catalogue by Guy Laking, but it isn't illustrated.

Dmitry · 2nd August 2010, 05:50 PM

Does the catalog also feature only partial views of swords, like the book does?
I just finished reading the book, and it's fascinating, but the failure to include the photos of the whole swords and scabbards is unexplainable...

Jens Nordlunde · 2nd August 2010, 07:12 PM

There seem to be a new catalogue coming up from the Wallace Collection.
Robert Elgood is working on it - but if it will be in one, two or more years no one seem to know.

Tatyana Dianova · 2nd August 2010, 08:59 PM

Yes Dmitry, but still it is a very good catalogue

Dmitry · 2nd August 2010, 09:01 PM

Thank you! I just ordered a copy for myself.

Dmitry · 19th August 2010, 04:28 PM

I just received the German language catalog of the collection by Holger Schuckelt. There are some magnificent pieces pictured and described in the book. For what it represents, the book it a definite bargain. It's a shame it's only in German. Were it in English , I'm sure it'd be an international best-seller.

14th April 2010, 05:28 PM	#1
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 701	Türckische Cammer in Dresden Here is a link to the video about the Türckische Cammer: http://www.skdmuseum.de/en/museums-i...mer/index.html I think that the opening of this permanent exhibition in Dresden is a unique event and I am really happy about it.

2nd August 2010, 07:12 PM	#17
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	The Wallace Catalogue There seem to be a new catalogue coming up from the Wallace Collection. Robert Elgood is working on it - but if it will be in one, two or more years no one seem to know.

15th April 2010, 01:11 AM	#2
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,084	Thank you for sharing the link. Would love to visit this exhibition. Just the video preview alone made my mouth water from all the beautiful swords, guns, etc. And the provenance can't get any better! Well worth a visit to view quality early material!

15th April 2010, 03:46 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,229	Love the stuff! Vielen Dank!

15th April 2010, 12:59 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I got the book. Gorgeous thing. But I was disappointed: virtually all swords show only handles and fragments of scabbards. Only a couple of daggers and only one saber ( a gorgeous Tatar one!) show full blades. It is more an art book than a sword one. Also, interestingly, the blades are very clean, well polished but none are etched. Most of them must be wootz-y, but nobody bothered to reveal the pattern. Was it a philosophy of the museum or just naivete?

15th April 2010, 02:28 PM	#5
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 701	There are two books really: the full catalogue and a shorter paperback edition. I am going to look through them (and buy one) at the museum in the nearest future. I hope that in the large book full blades will be shown more frequently... You will find no wootz pattern on any of the blades in this collection, that's true... I think it has something to do with the museum conservation methods. But no rust either :-) Interesting, that Japanese blades from the same period in the same museum still show their hamon and hada...

16th April 2010, 08:17 AM	#7
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 701	Great news, Alex!

19th April 2010, 10:22 AM	#8
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 701	I’ve visited finally the Türckische Cammer in Dresden. It features a really fantastic collection of Ottoman arms: most of them are pretty early and almost all of them are really beautiful ‘high-end’ arms. There are dozens of breathtaking swords and guns, and almost each of the pieces featured there is a masterpiece, so you'll definitely need a lot of time for viewing. It is a really amazing exhibition and it is worth a visit in any case! Now to what I didn’t like there. The light is very poor, i.e. it is completely dark in the rooms, and the pieces, which are hidden deep into the glass cabinets, are quite dimly highlighted with spot lights. I understand that it is made from the conservation point of view, but for example the decoration of the blades is barely visible. Some blades from this exhibition were featured earlier in the Dresdner Armoury in the old-style exposition and were seen many times better… You’ll definitely have to take good spectacles with you (if needed) and you’ll feel the desire to use a binoculars and a flashlight as well The usual museum writings belonging to objects are also almost non-existent, so you have to take someone really knowledgeable with you; otherwise you’ll get more questions than answers from this exposition :-) Or you may buy beforehand a full exhibition catalogue and take it with you inside (don’t forget the flashlight ) Now to the catalogue http://www.amazon.de/Die-T%C3%BCrcki...1660791&sr=8-1 and the book http://www.amazon.de/Turkish-Chamber-Oriental-Splendour-Dresden/dp/3422069143/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_6 The catalogue is a magnificent hard cover volume with the descriptions (pretty well made, incl. Arabic translations) and pictures of all ca. 370 items on the exhibition. I think that it is a ‘must buy’ book for everybody interested in Ottoman arms (and art) considering its price, even if you do not understand German. The paperback book is much smaller, and first I thought I may spare on it, but the selected 50 items which are featured there are described and pictured more detailed than at the catalogue, so finally I have bought both of them Ariel is right that in most cases the full length blades are not shown, but I believe it was made because of the superb hilts and the limited page quantity in each of the books. Remember, that the Manoucher’s attempt to put all pictures of a sword on one page was criticized quite often? The best example of pictures in arms book I know is one of the books about a Moscow Kremlin armoury where each (!) item had four (!) full pages. I hope it was of any help – and sorry for my English

22nd July 2010, 08:21 PM	#9
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	HOLGER SCHUKELT - TURKISH CHAMBER: ORIENTAL SPLENDOUR IN THE DRESDEN ARMOURY is available at the Metropolitan Museum Book Store/Gift Shop, for $40. That's where I got mine. Book covers the select 50 pieces from the Armoury holdings, not just swords, but the horse tack, etc. I will not disagree that the sword photos could be better represented. However, for $40 it's a definite buy.

23rd July 2010, 12:42 AM	#10
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Tatyana, I have the "book". Am I to understand that the "catalogue" is bigger, shows more examples and is more detailed? Should I buy it as well?

23rd July 2010, 08:55 AM	#11
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 701	Tha catalogue is a FULL catalogue of the collection, featuring all the items there (ca. 370). It is a very large and heavy volume, a VERY good and professionally written Ottoman arms reference book, that you SHOULD definitely buy, especially if you consider its price. But please do not think that it will have better or more detailed pictures, or longer descriptions than the smaller English book. In reality, the smaller book features 50 selected objects and has more info and bigger pictures for each of them than in the catalogue. So I think that you should definitely buy both

23rd July 2010, 01:22 PM	#12
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Ordered it. Based on your recommendation, I am $68 poorer and 320 objects richer. Thank Heavens the descriptions in the catalogue are short and not informative: otherwise, I would have had an irresistible urge to learn German. Thanks, Tatyana!

23rd July 2010, 08:45 PM	#13
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 701	I am afraid, you will have to learn German

23rd July 2010, 08:52 PM	#14
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Danke...

2nd August 2010, 05:50 PM	#16
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	Does the catalog also feature only partial views of swords, like the book does? I just finished reading the book, and it's fascinating, but the failure to include the photos of the whole swords and scabbards is unexplainable...

2nd August 2010, 08:59 PM	#18
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 701	Yes Dmitry, but still it is a very good catalogue

2nd August 2010, 09:01 PM	#19
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	Thank you! I just ordered a copy for myself.

19th August 2010, 04:28 PM	#20
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	I just received the German language catalog of the collection by Holger Schuckelt. There are some magnificent pieces pictured and described in the book. For what it represents, the book it a definite bargain. It's a shame it's only in German. Were it in English , I'm sure it'd be an international best-seller.