Old tenegre. Need help in identification of figure on the hilt.

h0ll0wman · 12th September 2021, 04:14 PM

I recently got this old tenegre but I am not familiar what figure is carved on the wooden hilt. May I kindly ask for anyone who can identify this?

Sajen · 12th September 2021, 04:55 PM

It's called "bakunawa". Nice Panay tenegre from around 1900.

Regards,
Detlef

xasterix · 13th September 2021, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

It's called "bakunawa". Nice Panay tenegre from around 1900.

Regards,
Detlef

Hi Detlef, sorry for having to chime in to correct...it's not the bakunawa. There are actually specific terms for each figural type; while the bakunawa is sometimes represented, the non-reptile looking ones have their own names in the Hiligaynon tongue. I'm not privy to these types, but I believe they are discussed in some recent publications. They are ancestral figurals.

Not claiming to be a talibong or tenegre expert, but based on my limited experience I'd place that closer to pre-WW2 than 1900.

jokrho · 13th September 2021, 06:40 AM

I would have to agree with Xasterix. This is a piece from just prior to WW2. Lovely tenegre by the way.

RSWORD · 13th September 2021, 12:30 PM

The lamination in the blade looks interesting. Worthy of an etch to bring out the pattern.

h0ll0wman · 13th September 2021, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSWORD

The lamination in the blade looks interesting. Worthy of an etch to bring out the pattern.

Thanks man. I think this is the best look it can get. The blade was already etched when I acquired it.

h0ll0wman · 13th September 2021, 04:09 PM

Thank you for all the inputs. I have yet to know what the figure on the hilt is really called.

Sajen · 13th September 2021, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xasterix

Hi Detlef, sorry for having to chime in to correct...it's not the bakunawa. There are actually specific terms for each figural type; while the bakunawa is sometimes represented, the non-reptile looking ones have their own names in the Hiligaynon tongue. I'm not privy to these types, but I believe they are discussed in some recent publications. They are ancestral figurals.

Hi Xas,
Yes, of course you are correct.

By closer look it's not the typical bakunawa. Bangkaya has written once: Generally, Ilonggo swords have greater lattitude in their carvings of figural pommels than the other regions of Panay. Some may carve their pommels in a more traditional manner or more abstract interpretation of "bakunawa." And then you have other figural depictions such as a true bakunawa or even other demons and deities of Filipino mythology, which is why I use the term anito.
So it's better described as anito. Here the thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=tenegre

Quote:

Originally Posted by xasterix

Not claiming to be a talibong or tenegre expert, but based on my limited experience I'd place that closer to pre-WW2 than 1900.

I was unsure, the pommel look much younger than blade and scabbard. And again, the laminated blade let become me unsure.

But I can live with the first quarter 20th century well.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 13th September 2021, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h0ll0wman

I have yet to know what the figure on the hilt is really called.

Hello,

I guess you will never exactly know, be happy with anito.

Here is some information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anito
When I understand correctly there are facebook groups in the Philippines, I don't know in which language written but I don't have facebook and don't want to join.

You have a nice tenegre there, be careful, they are addictive and they are not cheap.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 13th September 2021, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xasterix

I'm not privy to these types, but I believe they are discussed in some recent publications. They are ancestral figurals.

Xas, may I ask in which publications?

RSWORD · 14th September 2021, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h0ll0wman

Thanks man. I think this is the best look it can get. The blade was already etched when I acquired it.

Understood. Would you mind posting a few close up pictures of the pattern? I'm most interested in the central portion of the blade. There appears to be two parallel lines running from the forte towards the tip. It reminds me of what you sometimes see in twistcore and while probably not a guy can always hope and dream right! Plus the lamination towards the edge of the blade looks nice. Not too shabby!

xasterix · 14th September 2021, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Xas, may I ask in which publications?

Greetings, Detlef- I think I chanced upon it in the book:

A Warrior's Armament and Ornament: The Edwin R. Bautista Collection of Philippine Bladed Weapons

It was released early this year. It may also be mentioned in the Filipino Traditional Blades Facebook page, of which there are extensive pictures and classifications of modern talibong. Sorry I can't link there- my FB is deactivated currently.

Sajen · 15th September 2021, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xasterix

Greetings, Detlef- I think I chanced upon it in the book:

A Warrior's Armament and Ornament: The Edwin R. Bautista Collection of Philippine Bladed Weapons

It was released early this year. It may also be mentioned in the Filipino Traditional Blades Facebook page, of which there are extensive pictures and classifications of modern talibong. Sorry I can't link there- my FB is deactivated currently.

Thank you very much Xas!

h0ll0wman · 17th September 2021, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSWORD

Understood. Would you mind posting a few close up pictures of the pattern? I'm most interested in the central portion of the blade. There appears to be two parallel lines running from the forte towards the tip. It reminds me of what you sometimes see in twistcore and while probably not a guy can always hope and dream right! Plus the lamination towards the edge of the blade looks nice. Not too shabby!

here you go sir

xasterix · 17th September 2021, 09:13 PM

There's been a timely post by a PH museum on the matter that may be of interest. Hoping the admins would make an exception of this link since it's informative:

https://www.facebook.com/nationalmus...41311323347690

Anyway since the pommel in question does look like a monkey, I guess it can be tentatively labeled as "INAMO."

Again, I'm not an expert, but at least that's what it looks like to me

Ian · 18th September 2021, 03:47 AM

Hi Xas,

Thanks for that link. Perfectly OK to link to information sites like museums. It makes sense that many of these figural hilts are based on local insects or mythical figures/creatures.

It is encouraging to see museums around the country take more interest in edged weapons and the ethnographic significance of their designs. This seems to be an emerging area of scholarship.

Regards,

Ian.

12th September 2021, 04:14 PM	#1
h0ll0wman Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 71	Old tenegre. Need help in identification of figure on the hilt. I recently got this old tenegre but I am not familiar what figure is carved on the wooden hilt. May I kindly ask for anyone who can identify this? Attached Images

12th September 2021, 04:55 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	It's called "bakunawa". Nice Panay tenegre from around 1900. Regards, Detlef

13th September 2021, 06:40 AM	#4
jokrho Member Join Date: Dec 2020 Location: Manila Posts: 11	I would have to agree with Xasterix. This is a piece from just prior to WW2. Lovely tenegre by the way.

13th September 2021, 12:30 PM	#5
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	The lamination in the blade looks interesting. Worthy of an etch to bring out the pattern.

13th September 2021, 04:09 PM	#7
h0ll0wman Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 71	Thank you for all the inputs. I have yet to know what the figure on the hilt is really called.

17th September 2021, 09:13 PM	#15
xasterix Member Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 655	There's been a timely post by a PH museum on the matter that may be of interest. Hoping the admins would make an exception of this link since it's informative: https://www.facebook.com/nationalmus...41311323347690 Anyway since the pommel in question does look like a monkey, I guess it can be tentatively labeled as "INAMO." Again, I'm not an expert, but at least that's what it looks like to me

18th September 2021, 03:47 AM	#16
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Hi Xas, Thanks for that link. Perfectly OK to link to information sites like museums. It makes sense that many of these figural hilts are based on local insects or mythical figures/creatures. It is encouraging to see museums around the country take more interest in edged weapons and the ethnographic significance of their designs. This seems to be an emerging area of scholarship. Regards, Ian.