Is it a sword or a spear ?

Freddy · 7th November 2006, 08:42 PM

This is something I picked up yesterday.

First look at the handle. It's made of wood, partially covered with iron band, some nails. Part of this handle also has a braided cord covering.

And now the rest of this piece !

It has a spearblade which can be attributed to the following tribes : Lokele, So, Topeke. But instead of mounting this blade as a spear, it's mounted as a sword. Total length : 71 cm. And a very heavy piece.

In the second book of Zirngibl (Seltene Afrikanische Waffen - Rare African Weapons) two similar weapons are shown on page 40.

Some time ago, I showed two separate Lokele spear blades. Here is the pic again :

Luc LEFEBVRE · 7th November 2006, 08:50 PM

A spear point transformed in sword, I think it's clear enough.
Luc

Tim Simmons · 7th November 2006, 08:54 PM

Nice find. I would think it was used mainly as a dance thing as all the spears of that form I have handled do not strike my as the most warlike. I am sure it would make a very efficient weapon when the need arose.

Flavio · 15th November 2006, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Nice find. I would think it was used mainly as a dance thing as all the spears of that form I have handled do not strike my as the most warlike. I am sure it would make a very efficient weapon when the need arose.

Hi all! A very nice sword Freddy! I have an italian book (if i'm right) that shows a sword like this one also with rattan scabbard. I'm sorry but for the moment i can't post pictures, i will do in the next weeks!

frequent · 16th November 2006, 07:44 AM

this looks like it would be a sword but could havebeen a spear right.

Freddy · 16th November 2006, 10:11 AM

Flavio, I would like to see that picture.

In the mean time, here's the picture shown in the second boor of Zirngibl. These two are definitively converted spear blades. Look at the one on the left. It's handle is very similar to the handle on my piece.

Zirngible identifies these pieces as : Lokele (length : 74 and 73 cm)

Freddy · 16th November 2006, 10:23 AM

In Zirngibl's first book, Afrikanische Waffen (1978, p 76), there's also a picture of a converted spearhead. This one comes from the Bambuti (Mbuti), a pygmy-tribe.

The author writes this :

The pygmies don't work with metal. Instead, they acquire their knives and spearheads by trading bagged quary for them. The knife shown is typical. The handle is attached to the shaft of what was likely a spearhead.

Length of this dagger : 31 cm.

Tim Simmons · 16th November 2006, 02:08 PM

Is the handle woven cordage {string}? It looks very nicely done. I think it is a super thing, I can imagine it in my hand. Alas it is in yours

.

tom hyle · 18th November 2006, 10:31 PM

These type swords are often thought to be remade spear blades, but close examination usually yields no specific signs of such; ie the tang visibly converted from a socket, while many African tribes have swords and spears of similar blades; most to mind is the seme and the Massai "lion" spear. There is a spear in a shop here in Houston(for too much money for me) that has a distinctive blade usually only seen (in US) as a sword; Salampasu, I think; a sort of Etruscan looking thing.....

Flavio · 26th December 2006, 12:44 PM

Freddy, sorry for the delay!!!! I had forgotten this thread

. Anyway here we go: here is the picture of the sword with its scabbard. It's taken from the book "LAME D'AFRICA - M. Piccardi, L. Salvatici" tribe: topoke.

FourBlades · 26th December 2006, 02:46 PM

Somewhere I read that warriors were not allowed to carry their spears into European settled cities in Africa, so they cut off the shafts and carried them as swords or knives instead. Many of those I have seen have thin, solid tangs like swords and not like converted spears. Does anyone have one that has a socketed tang?

Good collecting to everyone in the new year!

John

7th November 2006, 08:42 PM	#1
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Is it a sword or a spear ? This is something I picked up yesterday. First look at the handle. It's made of wood, partially covered with iron band, some nails. Part of this handle also has a braided cord covering. And now the rest of this piece ! It has a spearblade which can be attributed to the following tribes : Lokele, So, Topeke. But instead of mounting this blade as a spear, it's mounted as a sword. Total length : 71 cm. And a very heavy piece. In the second book of Zirngibl (Seltene Afrikanische Waffen - Rare African Weapons) two similar weapons are shown on page 40. Some time ago, I showed two separate Lokele spear blades. Here is the pic again :

26th December 2006, 12:44 PM	#10
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Freddy, sorry for the delay!!!! I had forgotten this thread . Anyway here we go: here is the picture of the sword with its scabbard. It's taken from the book "LAME D'AFRICA - M. Piccardi, L. Salvatici" tribe: topoke. Attached Images

26th December 2006, 02:46 PM	#11
FourBlades Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 13	Converting spears to swords Somewhere I read that warriors were not allowed to carry their spears into European settled cities in Africa, so they cut off the shafts and carried them as swords or knives instead. Many of those I have seen have thin, solid tangs like swords and not like converted spears. Does anyone have one that has a socketed tang? Good collecting to everyone in the new year! John

7th November 2006, 08:50 PM	#2
Luc LEFEBVRE Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: France Posts: 472	A spear point transformed in sword, I think it's clear enough. Luc

7th November 2006, 08:54 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Nice find. I would think it was used mainly as a dance thing as all the spears of that form I have handled do not strike my as the most warlike. I am sure it would make a very efficient weapon when the need arose.

16th November 2006, 07:44 AM	#5
frequent Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 7	this looks like it would be a sword but could havebeen a spear right.

16th November 2006, 10:11 AM	#6
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Flavio, I would like to see that picture. In the mean time, here's the picture shown in the second boor of Zirngibl. These two are definitively converted spear blades. Look at the one on the left. It's handle is very similar to the handle on my piece. Zirngible identifies these pieces as : Lokele (length : 74 and 73 cm)

16th November 2006, 10:23 AM	#7
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	In Zirngibl's first book, Afrikanische Waffen (1978, p 76), there's also a picture of a converted spearhead. This one comes from the Bambuti (Mbuti), a pygmy-tribe. The author writes this : The pygmies don't work with metal. Instead, they acquire their knives and spearheads by trading bagged quary for them. The knife shown is typical. The handle is attached to the shaft of what was likely a spearhead. Length of this dagger : 31 cm.

16th November 2006, 02:08 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Is the handle woven cordage {string}? It looks very nicely done. I think it is a super thing, I can imagine it in my hand. Alas it is in yours .

18th November 2006, 10:31 PM	#9
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	These type swords are often thought to be remade spear blades, but close examination usually yields no specific signs of such; ie the tang visibly converted from a socket, while many African tribes have swords and spears of similar blades; most to mind is the seme and the Massai "lion" spear. There is a spear in a shop here in Houston(for too much money for me) that has a distinctive blade usually only seen (in US) as a sword; Salampasu, I think; a sort of Etruscan looking thing.....