Datu Kris with Ivory pommel

Indio_Ira · 14th April 2021, 09:51 PM

Hello everyone,

Sharing my Datu class Kris. Would like to hear your thoughts and would like to know where it originates.

Thanks!

David · 14th April 2021, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indio_Ira

Hello everyone,

Sharing my Datu class Kris. Would like to hear your thoughts and would like to know where it originates.

Thanks!

Welcome to the forums Ira.
We only discuss Indonesian/Malay keris on this forum so i am switching this over to the Ethnographic Forum.

Indio_Ira · 15th April 2021, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Welcome to the forums Ira.
We only discuss Indonesian/Malay keris on this forum so i am switching this over to the Ethnographic Forum.

Hello David! No worries sir. Appreciate the FYI

Would you care to share your knowledge on my kris?

Battara · 16th April 2021, 03:34 AM

Your kris is indeed datu class, is Maguindanao in origin, and from the 1920s - 1940s. The mounts might be silver wash (possibly white metal) and the brown hilt bands are copper (possibly brass).

Ian · 16th April 2021, 06:26 AM

Agree with Battara.

Maguindanao, first half of the 20th C. The metal areas on the hilt and scabbard would benefit from polishing to bring out the sword in all its finery. Nice kris.

Indio_Ira · 19th April 2021, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Agree with Battara.

Maguindanao, first half of the 20th C. The metal areas on the hilt and scabbard would benefit from polishing to bring out the sword in all its finery. Nice kris.

Thank you Ian for your input. What’s the best way to polish the metals on the hilt and scabbard?

Indio_Ira · 19th April 2021, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Your kris is indeed datu class, is Maguindanao in origin, and from the 1920s - 1940s. The mounts might be silver wash (possibly white metal) and the brown hilt bands are copper (possibly brass).

Thank you Battara, I appreciate the knowledge.

Ian · 19th April 2021, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indio_Ira

Thank you Ian for your input. What’s the best way to polish the metals on the hilt and scabbard?

I use an old product called "Simichrome Polish" which is made by Happich, has the consistency of toothpaste, and comes in a 50gm tube. It only requires small amounts at a time and one tube lasts me months. You can find it online—the cheapest prices I have seen were on eBay.

It contains solvents so keep it away from leather, ray skin, or fabrics which it can stain or discolor. Wood can be affected also, especially if it has been stained or polished. It's good for metal only. Also, make sure you don't leave any residue on the metal. It can build up over time with repeated cleaning. (Not as bad as Brasso, but it can be unsightly and might corrode the metal if residue is left for prolonged periods.)

The paste is a mild abrasive that is applied with a dry cloth and rubbed gently over the surface to remove surface oxidation (the paste changes color from yellow to black as the oxidation is removed). The covered areas are then buffed with a second clean dry cloth to remove the paste and polished gently to a bright finish. Use a wooden toothpick to remove paste from small, hard to clean areas.

.

David · 19th April 2021, 03:54 PM

I personally stay away from polishing pastes, or anything that applies abrasion to the metal. I would any one of a variety of two-sided polishing/buffing cloths that jewelers use.
I have a few questions about this kris that you probably haven't figured out fully yet, but here goes.
The fittings on the sheath don't look silver to me. Can you determine what metal this is? Is it aluminum or some other kind of "white" metal?
I would like to find out if the silver bands on the hilt are actually silver or just washed or plated or maybe some other kind of silver metal. Cleaning them up might help in identifying them.
Are you sure the pommel is ivory and not bone? What happened to the underneath area that looks all chewed up? Some better, closer photos with more a angles of view would be helpful.
I think Ian and José may have more experience with Moro weapons than i, but my general feeling is that the dress at least is post WWII, not as old as they suggest. I also hesitate to place this as Datu class (implying that it was actually owned by a datu). I see a lot of keris in the marketplace that i would consider datu STYLE, but that seem to have been dressed to appear that way for the marketplace. I am not convinced that a keris that would substitute various white metals for silver is actually a keris that a legitimate datu would carry, though i could be wrong.

Ian · 19th April 2021, 10:42 PM

David raises some interesting points. I think the blade is pre-WWII. The scabbard could be a later replacement, and the metal strips might be from low grade silver or other white metal as David suggests. However, the filigree work suggests silver to me. Similarly some of the metal work on the hilt may be more recent.

From what I can see of the pommel, I favor ivory rather than bone. The discolored areas are consistent with oil staining. Additional close up pictures would help settle the ivory or bone question. Check under the beak and the crest also for signs of bone.

As far as polishing cloth versus paste, I think it's a matter of preference. Both are mildly abrasive (which is how the oxidized material is removed). Cloths are great for flat surfaces, but cannot get into the nooks and crannies as well in my experience. Small amounts of paste with a soft toothbrush does a better job. Polishing cloths can also snag on filigree work, etc. I've ruined a few good polishing cloths that way. Using a paste with ordinary cotton cloths will still snag, but ordinary cotton cloths are a lot cheaper to replace than impregnated ones. The latter, of course, do not have the residue issue.

Battara · 20th April 2021, 05:22 AM

With the patina missing, I would suggest the "silver" are in fact nickel/copper alloy "German Silver".

Based on the patina and lack of vessicals on the pommel, I too think this is ivory.

On the jeweler's cloth - it is mostly for gems and soft metals like silver, gold, and copper (even brass). It is soft so that it would leave only microscopic scratches on the surface as it takes off the oxidation. For steel, it would be of little use - paper would be more useful for a soft abrasive (depending upon how shiny you want the blade).

David · 20th April 2021, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

On the jeweler's cloth - it is mostly for gems and soft metals like silver, gold, and copper (even brass). It is soft so that it would leave only microscopic scratches on the surface as it takes off the oxidation. For steel, it would be of little use - paper would be more useful for a soft abrasive (depending upon how shiny you want the blade).

José, i certainly was not suggesting the use of the jewelers cloth for the steel blade. LOL!

14th April 2021, 09:51 PM	#1
Indio_Ira Member Join Date: Apr 2021 Posts: 26	Datu Kris with Ivory pommel Hello everyone, Sharing my Datu class Kris. Would like to hear your thoughts and would like to know where it originates. Thanks! Attached Images

19th April 2021, 03:54 PM	#9
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	I personally stay away from polishing pastes, or anything that applies abrasion to the metal. I would any one of a variety of two-sided polishing/buffing cloths that jewelers use. I have a few questions about this kris that you probably haven't figured out fully yet, but here goes. The fittings on the sheath don't look silver to me. Can you determine what metal this is? Is it aluminum or some other kind of "white" metal? I would like to find out if the silver bands on the hilt are actually silver or just washed or plated or maybe some other kind of silver metal. Cleaning them up might help in identifying them. Are you sure the pommel is ivory and not bone? What happened to the underneath area that looks all chewed up? Some better, closer photos with more a angles of view would be helpful. I think Ian and José may have more experience with Moro weapons than i, but my general feeling is that the dress at least is post WWII, not as old as they suggest. I also hesitate to place this as Datu class (implying that it was actually owned by a datu). I see a lot of keris in the marketplace that i would consider datu STYLE, but that seem to have been dressed to appear that way for the marketplace. I am not convinced that a keris that would substitute various white metals for silver is actually a keris that a legitimate datu would carry, though i could be wrong. Attached Images Last edited by David; 19th April 2021 at 05:05 PM.

16th April 2021, 03:34 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	Your kris is indeed datu class, is Maguindanao in origin, and from the 1920s - 1940s. The mounts might be silver wash (possibly white metal) and the brown hilt bands are copper (possibly brass).

16th April 2021, 06:26 AM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Agree with Battara. Maguindanao, first half of the 20th C. The metal areas on the hilt and scabbard would benefit from polishing to bring out the sword in all its finery. Nice kris.

19th April 2021, 10:42 PM	#10
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	David raises some interesting points. I think the blade is pre-WWII. The scabbard could be a later replacement, and the metal strips might be from low grade silver or other white metal as David suggests. However, the filigree work suggests silver to me. Similarly some of the metal work on the hilt may be more recent. From what I can see of the pommel, I favor ivory rather than bone. The discolored areas are consistent with oil staining. Additional close up pictures would help settle the ivory or bone question. Check under the beak and the crest also for signs of bone. As far as polishing cloth versus paste, I think it's a matter of preference. Both are mildly abrasive (which is how the oxidized material is removed). Cloths are great for flat surfaces, but cannot get into the nooks and crannies as well in my experience. Small amounts of paste with a soft toothbrush does a better job. Polishing cloths can also snag on filigree work, etc. I've ruined a few good polishing cloths that way. Using a paste with ordinary cotton cloths will still snag, but ordinary cotton cloths are a lot cheaper to replace than impregnated ones. The latter, of course, do not have the residue issue.

20th April 2021, 05:22 AM	#11
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	With the patina missing, I would suggest the "silver" are in fact nickel/copper alloy "German Silver". Based on the patina and lack of vessicals on the pommel, I too think this is ivory. On the jeweler's cloth - it is mostly for gems and soft metals like silver, gold, and copper (even brass). It is soft so that it would leave only microscopic scratches on the surface as it takes off the oxidation. For steel, it would be of little use - paper would be more useful for a soft abrasive (depending upon how shiny you want the blade).