Real or reproduction? horse armour and shield

eftihis · 3rd January 2007, 11:37 AM

Hi, some time ago came out for sale on ebay the following 2 items, a horse armour and a shield. The items look old, but of what age? Where real or ceremonial? And of what culture/era? The shield looks like a central piece of armour suit, and looks that has damage from age. The horse armour has a shape i havent seen before and also bronze on it which also havent seen before. What are your opinions?

wolviex · 3rd January 2007, 01:07 PM

I don't know if it is a right trace, but there is a Sind Armour from India in my Museum with unusual helmet where you can observe a similiar design made of brass, cut with half-round teeth with dots. Sind origin of this helmet isn't certain, as we discussed this particular objects with Brian (B.I.) and he has his own theory of outside Sind influences (maybe Afghan ones). Just my two cents. I hope Brian will take a voice on this one if my comparison is right.

B.I · 3rd January 2007, 07:10 PM

Hi Michal,
Good call with the comparison to your Sind armour. I do feel the chanfron is of the same age and region ie 18thC. It is not that I questioned the Sind origin of this style of armour, more that I wondered if there was a source earlier than Egerton, who everyone seemed to defer to when regionalising them. Your suit is one of the most decorative ones in existance, and surely made for royalty or extreme wealth. As Sind royalty was Islamic during this period, I questioned the strong Hindu influence. I think it is too easy (and lazy?) to just use a term without wondering where it came from.
These may well be Sind, its just I would prefer more confirmation than this one source.
Eftihis, this chanfron shape is very Indian, and known in shape. It is not that disimilar to the earlier Turkish shape.
The 'body plate' is Ottoman of course. I assume it is 16thC, although the construction is thinner, and the dimensions a little larger than the usual krug size. I have seen these used as central bosses on shields (although possibly adapted from a distressed body armour) and also possibly for the front section of a horse armour. But, I would assume its just a large krug.

3rd January 2007, 11:37 AM	#1
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 507	Real or reproduction? horse armour and shield Hi, some time ago came out for sale on ebay the following 2 items, a horse armour and a shield. The items look old, but of what age? Where real or ceremonial? And of what culture/era? The shield looks like a central piece of armour suit, and looks that has damage from age. The horse armour has a shape i havent seen before and also bronze on it which also havent seen before. What are your opinions? Attached Images

3rd January 2007, 01:07 PM	#2
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	Indian? I don't know if it is a right trace, but there is a Sind Armour from India in my Museum with unusual helmet where you can observe a similiar design made of brass, cut with half-round teeth with dots. Sind origin of this helmet isn't certain, as we discussed this particular objects with Brian (B.I.) and he has his own theory of outside Sind influences (maybe Afghan ones). Just my two cents. I hope Brian will take a voice on this one if my comparison is right. Attached Images

3rd January 2007, 07:10 PM	#3
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	Hi Michal, Good call with the comparison to your Sind armour. I do feel the chanfron is of the same age and region ie 18thC. It is not that I questioned the Sind origin of this style of armour, more that I wondered if there was a source earlier than Egerton, who everyone seemed to defer to when regionalising them. Your suit is one of the most decorative ones in existance, and surely made for royalty or extreme wealth. As Sind royalty was Islamic during this period, I questioned the strong Hindu influence. I think it is too easy (and lazy?) to just use a term without wondering where it came from. These may well be Sind, its just I would prefer more confirmation than this one source. Eftihis, this chanfron shape is very Indian, and known in shape. It is not that disimilar to the earlier Turkish shape. The 'body plate' is Ottoman of course. I assume it is 16thC, although the construction is thinner, and the dimensions a little larger than the usual krug size. I have seen these used as central bosses on shields (although possibly adapted from a distressed body armour) and also possibly for the front section of a horse armour. But, I would assume its just a large krug. Last edited by B.I; 3rd January 2007 at 07:52 PM.