Ceremonial Brass Adze for ID

Cthulhu · 24th February 2014, 07:08 PM

This item was for sale on ebay a week or so ago. I didn't bid, partly because my wife declared it unacceptably hideous, and partly because I had no idea what it was. The seller thought it might be Indo-Persian or Nepalese, and suggested it was probably for temple use.

Without knowing its name, it's hard to look up; I could only find one like it on the web, and that one was unidentified as well. Can anyone tell me what it is? And where it's from?

I'm only posting two photos because the item seems quite unmistakable. There are a few more I can upload if necessary, though. These pictures are posted with permission of the seller.

VANDOO · 25th February 2014, 12:37 AM

THESE HAVE BEEN POSTED ON THE FORUM BUT UNFORTUNATELY I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO SEARCH UNDER. SOMEONE SAID THEY WERE USED FOR CUTTING SUGAR AND WERE FROM SOMEWHERE IN THE VICINITY OF INDIA IF NOT FROM INDIA

. SORRY I CAN'T BE OF MORE HELP, PERHAPS SOMEONE WITH A BETTER MEMORY CAN HELP OUT. THEY ARE VERY GAUDY BUT KIND OF COOL I HAVE ONE AROUND SOMEWHERE.

VANDOO · 25th February 2014, 01:07 AM

DOUBLE POST

Tim Simmons · 25th February 2014, 07:10 AM

This is a sugar adze from the area of East Africa that is Somalia and surrounding peoples.

Martin Lubojacky · 25th February 2014, 07:27 AM

Hi,
I saw something simmilar described as Touareg salt adze from Mali. But if there is a head of "classical deer" as a decorative motif, it could also be from Morocco (Atlas ?) or Algeria.
Regards,
Martin

Martin Lubojacky · 25th February 2014, 07:37 AM

I don´t want to exclude India....., too. I am thinking about it further, since I did not see stones (an rounded axe motif) on such Sahel hammers

Cthulhu · 25th February 2014, 06:57 PM

Thanks for all the ideas. The consensus seems to be that I'm in the wrong place; I should have posted on the Ethnographic Kitchen Implements forum. Now I'm even happier I didn't bid.

I was glad to see Tim Simmons' answer, and immediately did an image search for "Somali sugar adze." That turns up four images of exactly the right thing so it would seem confirmed. Unfortunately those four images are from Tim Simmons' own post on a past thread on vikingsword saying it's a Somali sugar adze, so it's a bit circular as confirmations go. LOHAR - Solving The Mistery
Tim, do you recall where you heard/read this?

I can find plenty of pictures of Tuareg sugar hammers, now that I know there is such a thing. They all seem pretty similar to each other in design, and while I can see similarities they're sufficiently different from this weird thing to make me think this is from a different culture, time, or place. Particularly the deer and bird ornamentation. Now that I've seen three different ones, it makes me more convinced that these are a particular tool, rather than a crazy one-off from from mad artisan.

But if there's limited interest in discussing this non-weapon, I'm regardless pleased to think of it as a sugar hammer.

Tim Simmons · 26th February 2014, 02:44 PM

If you Google Safavid sugar axe you will see similar item. Your bronze piece could be Yemen.

Cthulhu · 26th February 2014, 04:29 PM

I saw that Safavid sugar axe yesterday and dismissed it because it didn't have the deer and bird ornamentation, nor the crazy flange on the back. But taking another look, you're absolutely right. If you Google brass adze reindeer (web search, not image search) you get a Worthpoint page with a tool with the same overall shape as the Safavid piece, same hammer on one side, similar dotted circle on the top of the blade, plus the deer and bird ornaments. Your example from the lohar thread also has that dotted circle, plus the flange in place of the hammer and the inset stones. And the dotted circle is gone in the one in my pics. So it seems to have undergone a gradual evolution to be more and more ornate.

While I still don't know it's native name or where exactly it's from, knowing its origins is just as good. Thanks!

colin henshaw · 27th February 2014, 10:39 AM

This is certainly a sugar axe/adze/hammer, but I don't see it as a Safavid piece. Most likely Indian (slight possibility North African), late 19th or early 20th century...

24th February 2014, 07:08 PM	#1
Cthulhu Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Central Valley, California Posts: 46	Ceremonial Brass Adze for ID This item was for sale on ebay a week or so ago. I didn't bid, partly because my wife declared it unacceptably hideous, and partly because I had no idea what it was. The seller thought it might be Indo-Persian or Nepalese, and suggested it was probably for temple use. Without knowing its name, it's hard to look up; I could only find one like it on the web, and that one was unidentified as well. Can anyone tell me what it is? And where it's from? I'm only posting two photos because the item seems quite unmistakable. There are a few more I can upload if necessary, though. These pictures are posted with permission of the seller. Attached Images

26th February 2014, 04:29 PM	#9
Cthulhu Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Central Valley, California Posts: 46	I saw that Safavid sugar axe yesterday and dismissed it because it didn't have the deer and bird ornamentation, nor the crazy flange on the back. But taking another look, you're absolutely right. If you Google brass adze reindeer (web search, not image search) you get a Worthpoint page with a tool with the same overall shape as the Safavid piece, same hammer on one side, similar dotted circle on the top of the blade, plus the deer and bird ornaments. Your example from the lohar thread also has that dotted circle, plus the flange in place of the hammer and the inset stones. And the dotted circle is gone in the one in my pics. So it seems to have undergone a gradual evolution to be more and more ornate. While I still don't know it's native name or where exactly it's from, knowing its origins is just as good. Thanks! Last edited by Cthulhu; 26th February 2014 at 10:25 PM. Reason: Clarifying "similar to what"

25th February 2014, 12:37 AM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THESE HAVE BEEN POSTED ON THE FORUM BUT UNFORTUNATELY I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO SEARCH UNDER. SOMEONE SAID THEY WERE USED FOR CUTTING SUGAR AND WERE FROM SOMEWHERE IN THE VICINITY OF INDIA IF NOT FROM INDIA . SORRY I CAN'T BE OF MORE HELP, PERHAPS SOMEONE WITH A BETTER MEMORY CAN HELP OUT. THEY ARE VERY GAUDY BUT KIND OF COOL I HAVE ONE AROUND SOMEWHERE.

25th February 2014, 01:07 AM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	DOUBLE POST

25th February 2014, 07:10 AM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	This is a sugar adze from the area of East Africa that is Somalia and surrounding peoples.

25th February 2014, 07:27 AM	#5
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 841	Hi, I saw something simmilar described as Touareg salt adze from Mali. But if there is a head of "classical deer" as a decorative motif, it could also be from Morocco (Atlas ?) or Algeria. Regards, Martin

25th February 2014, 07:37 AM	#6
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 841	I don´t want to exclude India....., too. I am thinking about it further, since I did not see stones (an rounded axe motif) on such Sahel hammers

25th February 2014, 06:57 PM	#7
Cthulhu Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Central Valley, California Posts: 46	Thanks for all the ideas. The consensus seems to be that I'm in the wrong place; I should have posted on the Ethnographic Kitchen Implements forum. Now I'm even happier I didn't bid. I was glad to see Tim Simmons' answer, and immediately did an image search for "Somali sugar adze." That turns up four images of exactly the right thing so it would seem confirmed. Unfortunately those four images are from Tim Simmons' own post on a past thread on vikingsword saying it's a Somali sugar adze, so it's a bit circular as confirmations go. LOHAR - Solving The Mistery Tim, do you recall where you heard/read this? I can find plenty of pictures of Tuareg sugar hammers, now that I know there is such a thing. They all seem pretty similar to each other in design, and while I can see similarities they're sufficiently different from this weird thing to make me think this is from a different culture, time, or place. Particularly the deer and bird ornamentation. Now that I've seen three different ones, it makes me more convinced that these are a particular tool, rather than a crazy one-off from from mad artisan. But if there's limited interest in discussing this non-weapon, I'm regardless pleased to think of it as a sugar hammer.

26th February 2014, 02:44 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	If you Google Safavid sugar axe you will see similar item. Your bronze piece could be Yemen.

27th February 2014, 10:39 AM	#10
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	This is certainly a sugar axe/adze/hammer, but I don't see it as a Safavid piece. Most likely Indian (slight possibility North African), late 19th or early 20th century...