Help with identifying an Austrian sabre

messia · 6th November 2021, 09:58 AM

Hello everybody. I bought a saber at an auction, apparently Austrian, what do you say? I cannot find a similar model and understand the brand.

corrado26 · 6th November 2021, 03:22 PM

As far as I can see this has nothing to do with Austria - it is a Württemberg officer sabre M 1817 which has been in use still during the First World War. The troop marking stands for the "Württembergisches Landwehr-Train Bataillon N°13".

Jim McDougall · 6th November 2021, 06:14 PM

It has always been amazing to me that these very early German sword types were in use so late and into WWI. It also seems that these stamped markings most often denote 'train battalion's'.
What exactly were 'train battalion's'?

Also, interestingly with the German units, especially cavalry and the use of obviously long outmoded lancers, it seems that in many cases, there was an almost anachronistic penchant for the pageantry of 19th century uniforms and weaponry.

The only other use of lances for example was perhaps some of the British Bengal Lancer and other units from other Indian states. Here of course, their own pageantry in uniform was evident.

Most overviews on WWI of course bring to mind khaki and drab utility uniforms and helmets slogging through muddy trenches in most of the armies involved, but the contrasts of these flamboyant units noted are colorfully fascinating.

kronckew · 7th November 2021, 08:00 AM

Train Battalions were infantry assigned specifically to ride on and guard military supply/troop trains.

Swedish Train Regiment Soldier with his
M1848 Swedish Faskinkniv

messia · 8th November 2021, 02:30 PM

Hi guys. Thank you so much for your answers. But the "Württemberg officer saber M 1817" has a different hilt from the saber that I sent you. Possibly a modification for the 'train battalion's' ?. I found a forum thread with a photo of sabers m1817, as well as a photo from a book, I want to share with you.
https://sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/t...-cavalry-sabre

corrado26 · 15th November 2021, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by messia

But the "Württemberg officer saber M 1817" has a different hilt from the saber that I sent you.

Don't forget that officers are in the situation to arm themselves on their own cost and could order sabres of their own taste. Over that it is not certain that the sword and its scabbard originally belonged together. The troop marking of the scabbard is missing at the sabre so that it is rather obvious that they have been put together later, very understandable in the long time this sabres had been in use.

messia · 25th December 2021, 09:42 AM

Hello. finally took the saber and took good pictures. I want to share with you, it seems to me that the scabbard is completely suitable for this item and there are no traces of the blade being re-sharpened under the other scabbard.

messia · 25th December 2021, 09:44 AM

Perhaps it will be convenient to look through Google's album
https://photos.app.goo.gl/m3Mvyik2egAf38i76

6th November 2021, 09:58 AM	#1
messia Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 31	Help with identifying an Austrian sabre Hello everybody. I bought a saber at an auction, apparently Austrian, what do you say? I cannot find a similar model and understand the brand. Attached Images

7th November 2021, 08:00 AM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,178	Train Battalions were infantry assigned specifically to ride on and guard military supply/troop trains. Swedish Train Regiment Soldier with his M1848 Swedish Faskinkniv Attached Images

8th November 2021, 02:30 PM	#5
messia Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 31	Hi guys. Thank you so much for your answers. But the "Württemberg officer saber M 1817" has a different hilt from the saber that I sent you. Possibly a modification for the 'train battalion's' ?. I found a forum thread with a photo of sabers m1817, as well as a photo from a book, I want to share with you. https://sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/t...-cavalry-sabre Attached Images

25th December 2021, 09:42 AM	#7
messia Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 31	Hello. finally took the saber and took good pictures. I want to share with you, it seems to me that the scabbard is completely suitable for this item and there are no traces of the blade being re-sharpened under the other scabbard. Attached Images

25th December 2021, 09:44 AM	#8
messia Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 31	Perhaps it will be convenient to look through Google's album https://photos.app.goo.gl/m3Mvyik2egAf38i76 Attached Images

6th November 2021, 03:22 PM	#2
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	As far as I can see this has nothing to do with Austria - it is a Württemberg officer sabre M 1817 which has been in use still during the First World War. The troop marking stands for the "Württembergisches Landwehr-Train Bataillon N°13".

6th November 2021, 06:14 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,940	It has always been amazing to me that these very early German sword types were in use so late and into WWI. It also seems that these stamped markings most often denote 'train battalion's'. What exactly were 'train battalion's'? Also, interestingly with the German units, especially cavalry and the use of obviously long outmoded lancers, it seems that in many cases, there was an almost anachronistic penchant for the pageantry of 19th century uniforms and weaponry. The only other use of lances for example was perhaps some of the British Bengal Lancer and other units from other Indian states. Here of course, their own pageantry in uniform was evident. Most overviews on WWI of course bring to mind khaki and drab utility uniforms and helmets slogging through muddy trenches in most of the armies involved, but the contrasts of these flamboyant units noted are colorfully fascinating.