Unusual color on Kris blade

Spunjer · 4th January 2009, 05:22 PM

has anyone seen this color on a moro kris blade? at first i thought it was dried up cosmoline, but the coloration is uniform throughout, save the edge part where it's been sharpened. the edge has a regular steel color. as far as the color itself, it's a light olive drab, kinda brassy. i'm really beginning to think the blade is indeed made out of some type of brass, but with hardened steel edge. the asang and ferrule are copper, btw.
when i first got it, i tried to use acetone, then water steam, but non of it made any difference, meaning i can't remove whatever it is. i think the blade was deliberately done this way. any comment on this???

btw, the grip on the handle is unusual as well; it's covered with a leather like material:

Battara · 4th January 2009, 06:16 PM

I have seen this color in steel before. I don't' think it is brass because the heat differential between brass and steel is too great. Interesting back part near the hilt.

Bill M · 4th January 2009, 06:46 PM

Sometimes when trying to stain a blade, I used tap water mixed with FeCl and got a color like that. Now use distilled water.

Atlanta water is so bad and atheist could walk on it!

If it is a stain, chemical removers won't help. Might try some 900-1000 grit sandpaper with water or WD40. Bet that will clean it off.

Robert · 4th January 2009, 06:52 PM

Hi Spunjer,
The only thing that I have ever seen like this before was a dagger. It had a steel core that included the tang with a nickel bronze, not brass overlay. Is there any place one the blade where you could test it to see if it is bronze without doing any damage? Maybe you could remove the grip and if the blade has a separate gangya you could test it in between where it wouldn't show. What ever it turns out to be it is a very interesting piece.

Robert

Amuk Murugul · 4th January 2009, 09:58 PM

Hullo everybody,

I don't know whether it's the same thing, but here it is:

I have a moro kris which had a similar colour to yours and felt like some kind of plastic film. I wasn't too concerned at the time, as I was more concerned with getting rid of some rust spots on it. I brushed the blade with citric acid. After a while, not only did the rust spots clear,but so did the green /olive film/coating. It's not 100% clear at the moment but it probably will be the next time I wash it.

Best,

Spunjer · 4th January 2009, 10:37 PM

thanks all, for the comments! my concern regarding this blade is whether it was done deliberately to look like this, or was it applied artificially, accidental or otherwise.
i took some closeups using natural lighting. i did notice that there was a couple spots in the katik where it was coming off. at the moment, i'm kinda partial into being done deliberately. it's too uniform throughout the blade. even on the smallest parts, such as the elephant's trunk, is covered with whatever it is. also the edges appeared to have been sharpened after it was applied. robert, the overlay sounds interesting. kinda like plating perhaps?

it started to drizzle...

Robert · 4th January 2009, 10:46 PM

Spunjer,
Yes, like electra-plate. Very smooth as if it was polished after being applied but with the same aged look as the blade you have posted.

Robert

Amuk Murugul · 5th January 2009, 12:14 AM

Hullo everybody,

Yes I agree. It looked very evenly and deliberately applied. The only metal showing were a few spots at the crest of waves where it looked like they had been rubbing against the inside of the scabbard over years of in/out motion. That's why I wasn't concerned. I was very glad it was there, as it preserved the blade and the inlay in mint condition. Similar to the "blue" on a Marsose Klewang

Best,

Rick · 5th January 2009, 12:58 AM

It almost looks like a coat of shellac, varnish or maybe linseed oil .

asomotif · 5th January 2009, 01:13 AM

Quote:

shellac, varnish or maybe linseed oil

That is my idea too.

Rick · 5th January 2009, 01:18 AM

They were commonly used anti rust coatings in days of yore ...

I have seen it on more than one bladed weapon, Moro included .

Robert · 5th January 2009, 02:14 AM

Easy enough to find out if it is shellac or not regardless of age. Put some denatured alcohol on it and if it melts or softens up there you are. Any other finish such as varnish or dried out linseed oil can be removed easily with paint remover. Just don't leave it on too long as some forms of this can cause discoloration to the metal. To me it still seems to have more of a metalic look to it BWDIK ?

Robert

Rick · 5th January 2009, 02:16 AM

Acetone will remove varnish and linseed and will not remove patina; denatured will work best on shellac .

If the color is not a 'finish' then I would suspect FECL; if improperly used it will render warm tones .

Spunjer · 5th January 2009, 02:47 AM

i've tried industrial acetone, and steam (if it was indeed cosmoline). and it's too uniformed to have been FECL, unless the owner removed the asang and handle, then re sharpened the edges all the way to the katik. i will try denatured alcohol.

Battara · 5th January 2009, 05:01 AM

IF it was nickeled (once used for anti-rust and to make blades shiny) then it will take more than denatured alcohol.

Shellac sounds good and more hopeful.

Spunjer · 5th January 2009, 05:15 AM

doubt if it's nickeled. i worked on a barung this past summer that was nickel plated. yup, it was a female dog! used muriatic acid and still took me a good couple hours...

4th January 2009, 05:22 PM	#1
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	Unusual color on Kris blade has anyone seen this color on a moro kris blade? at first i thought it was dried up cosmoline, but the coloration is uniform throughout, save the edge part where it's been sharpened. the edge has a regular steel color. as far as the color itself, it's a light olive drab, kinda brassy. i'm really beginning to think the blade is indeed made out of some type of brass, but with hardened steel edge. the asang and ferrule are copper, btw. when i first got it, i tried to use acetone, then water steam, but non of it made any difference, meaning i can't remove whatever it is. i think the blade was deliberately done this way. any comment on this??? btw, the grip on the handle is unusual as well; it's covered with a leather like material:

4th January 2009, 06:16 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	I have seen this color in steel before. I don't' think it is brass because the heat differential between brass and steel is too great. Interesting back part near the hilt.

4th January 2009, 06:46 PM	#3
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Sometimes when trying to stain a blade, I used tap water mixed with FeCl and got a color like that. Now use distilled water. Atlanta water is so bad and atheist could walk on it! If it is a stain, chemical removers won't help. Might try some 900-1000 grit sandpaper with water or WD40. Bet that will clean it off.

4th January 2009, 06:52 PM	#4
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hi Spunjer, The only thing that I have ever seen like this before was a dagger. It had a steel core that included the tang with a nickel bronze, not brass overlay. Is there any place one the blade where you could test it to see if it is bronze without doing any damage? Maybe you could remove the grip and if the blade has a separate gangya you could test it in between where it wouldn't show. What ever it turns out to be it is a very interesting piece. Robert

4th January 2009, 09:58 PM	#5
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 460	Hullo everybody, I don't know whether it's the same thing, but here it is: I have a moro kris which had a similar colour to yours and felt like some kind of plastic film. I wasn't too concerned at the time, as I was more concerned with getting rid of some rust spots on it. I brushed the blade with citric acid. After a while, not only did the rust spots clear,but so did the green /olive film/coating. It's not 100% clear at the moment but it probably will be the next time I wash it. Best,

4th January 2009, 10:37 PM	#6
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	thanks all, for the comments! my concern regarding this blade is whether it was done deliberately to look like this, or was it applied artificially, accidental or otherwise. i took some closeups using natural lighting. i did notice that there was a couple spots in the katik where it was coming off. at the moment, i'm kinda partial into being done deliberately. it's too uniform throughout the blade. even on the smallest parts, such as the elephant's trunk, is covered with whatever it is. also the edges appeared to have been sharpened after it was applied. robert, the overlay sounds interesting. kinda like plating perhaps? it started to drizzle...

4th January 2009, 10:46 PM	#7
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Spunjer, Yes, like electra-plate. Very smooth as if it was polished after being applied but with the same aged look as the blade you have posted. Robert

5th January 2009, 12:14 AM	#8
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 460	Hullo everybody, Yes I agree. It looked very evenly and deliberately applied. The only metal showing were a few spots at the crest of waves where it looked like they had been rubbing against the inside of the scabbard over years of in/out motion. That's why I wasn't concerned. I was very glad it was there, as it preserved the blade and the inlay in mint condition. Similar to the "blue" on a Marsose Klewang Best,

5th January 2009, 12:58 AM	#9
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	It almost looks like a coat of shellac, varnish or maybe linseed oil .

5th January 2009, 01:18 AM	#11
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	They were commonly used anti rust coatings in days of yore ... I have seen it on more than one bladed weapon, Moro included .

5th January 2009, 02:14 AM	#12
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Easy enough to find out if it is shellac or not regardless of age. Put some denatured alcohol on it and if it melts or softens up there you are. Any other finish such as varnish or dried out linseed oil can be removed easily with paint remover. Just don't leave it on too long as some forms of this can cause discoloration to the metal. To me it still seems to have more of a metalic look to it BWDIK ? Robert

5th January 2009, 02:16 AM	#13
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Acetone will remove varnish and linseed and will not remove patina; denatured will work best on shellac . If the color is not a 'finish' then I would suspect FECL; if improperly used it will render warm tones .

5th January 2009, 02:47 AM	#14
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	i've tried industrial acetone, and steam (if it was indeed cosmoline). and it's too uniformed to have been FECL, unless the owner removed the asang and handle, then re sharpened the edges all the way to the katik. i will try denatured alcohol.

5th January 2009, 05:01 AM	#15
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	IF it was nickeled (once used for anti-rust and to make blades shiny) then it will take more than denatured alcohol. Shellac sounds good and more hopeful.

5th January 2009, 05:15 AM	#16
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	doubt if it's nickeled. i worked on a barung this past summer that was nickel plated. yup, it was a female dog! used muriatic acid and still took me a good couple hours...