Oceanic clubs

[Gavin Nugent]

I have of late taken an interest in axes and clubs again, I think it is the simple brutal nature of these impliments.
I just secured these two in a deceased estate auction in the UK. I beleive they are Massim clubs??? I think they might be quite old looking at them too. Although they lack the engravings that I have seen in Massims clubs, to me they do resemble them. The one on the right looks a little different and may have another origin as the timber looks like that found in many Kris sheaths.
They both measure 73 cms long, at this point it is the only dimensions I have.
I would love to hear more about these from those who are well versed in the subject as I can only find one posting on Massim weapons in the forum. I have looked a little else where and seen these smooth clubs referred to as dance clubs??? Are they weapons or ceremonial??? They do look like they would cleave a skull very well.

Gav

[VANDOO]

BOTH DO APPEAR TO BE GOOD OLD CLUBS FROM NEW GUINEA. MOST ARE REFERRED TO AS MASSIM CLUBS BUT THERE MAY HAVE BEEN OTHER TRIBES WHO USED THIS FORM OF CLUB, I DON'T HAVE ANY REFRENCES TO SORT IT OUT.
THE TWO YOU HAVE DO APPEAR TO BE FROM THE PERIOD WHEN THEY WERE USED FOR FIGHTING. MOST OF THOSE SEEN FOR SALE ON EBAY BY ETH.ART DEALERS TODAY ARE NEW WITH NICE CARVED DESIGNS AND ARE DEFINITELY DANCE CLUBS THEY DO MAKE GOOD WALL HANGERS AND SOME DO SHOW THE CARVING ABILITYS OF THE LOCALS, THEY ALSO SELL A LOT OF WELL CARVED LIME SPATULAS AND BOWLS.
AS TO DANCE CLUBS MOST ANY CLUB MADE TODAY IF USED IN THE TRIBAL SOCIETY IN ANY OTHER WAY THAN TO SELL TO DEALERS OR TOURISTS WOULD ONLY BE USED IN CEREMONIES OR DANCES.
IN THE OLD DAYS THEY WERE USED IN DANCES TO PREPARE FOR A BATTLE AND IN A DANCE AFTERWARDS TO SHOW HOW BRAVE THEY WERE AND HOW THEY DESTROYED THEIR ENEMYS. IN THOSE DAYS YOU NOT ONLY HAD TO FIGHT BUT YOU HAD TO PERFORM AND TELL YOUR PART IN THE BATTLE ONCE YOU RETURNED TO THE VILLAGE OFTEN IN THE FORM OF A DANCE. I AM NOT SURE WHY THIS IS BUT IT SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN A COMMON PRACTICE WORLD WIDE IN TRIBAL SOCIETYS. MANY DANCES WERE OFTEN MARTIAL ART TRAINING SORT OF LIKE THE KATA IN TODAYS MARTIAL ARTS. THIS WAS ESPECIALLY TRUE IN OCEANIC ,POLYNESIAN SOCIETYS.

[asomotif]

It looks like those massim also liked cricket

But seriously, this form is not something I have seen before.
Where exactely would they come from ? (geograhpically)

Best regards,
Willem

[Tim Simmons]

It is a little hard to say anything from these pictures, taken from such a stange angle. Why do people do this. What you want is simple mug shot like pictures. They look just a little rude in manufacture to me but as I say the pictures do not help. Weapons and artifacts can appear crude at first glance from these regions. I feel that anything for serious use is usually well made and clear in any ones eye. Best await better pics.

[fearn]

Hi Willem,

The Massim area is the eastern end of Papua New Guinea (Milne Bay) and adjoining islands. Some of Massim's claims to fame are the Kula Ring "trading" network and the Trobriand Islands, where Malinowski did much of his fieldwork for Argonauts of the Western Pacific.

I agree that these look like Massim-area clubs, but I have no idea about the range of that particular form, or whether it is used outside the Massim area.

My 0.002 cents,

F

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by VANDOO

BOTH DO APPEAR TO BE GOOD OLD CLUBS FROM NEW GUINEA. MOST ARE REFERRED TO AS MASSIM CLUBS BUT THERE MAY HAVE BEEN OTHER TRIBES WHO USED THIS FORM OF CLUB, I DON'T HAVE ANY REFRENCES TO SORT IT OUT.
THE TWO YOU HAVE DO APPEAR TO BE FROM THE PERIOD WHEN THEY WERE USED FOR FIGHTING. MOST OF THOSE SEEN FOR SALE ON EBAY BY ETH.ART DEALERS TODAY ARE NEW WITH NICE CARVED DESIGNS AND ARE DEFINITELY DANCE CLUBS THEY DO MAKE GOOD WALL HANGERS AND SOME DO SHOW THE CARVING ABILITYS OF THE LOCALS, THEY ALSO SELL A LOT OF WELL CARVED LIME SPATULAS AND BOWLS.
AS TO DANCE CLUBS MOST ANY CLUB MADE TODAY IF USED IN THE TRIBAL SOCIETY IN ANY OTHER WAY THAN TO SELL TO DEALERS OR TOURISTS WOULD ONLY BE USED IN CEREMONIES OR DANCES.
IN THE OLD DAYS THEY WERE USED IN DANCES TO PREPARE FOR A BATTLE AND IN A DANCE AFTERWARDS TO SHOW HOW BRAVE THEY WERE AND HOW THEY DESTROYED THEIR ENEMYS. IN THOSE DAYS YOU NOT ONLY HAD TO FIGHT BUT YOU HAD TO PERFORM AND TELL YOUR PART IN THE BATTLE ONCE YOU RETURNED TO THE VILLAGE OFTEN IN THE FORM OF A DANCE. I AM NOT SURE WHY THIS IS BUT IT SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN A COMMON PRACTICE WORLD WIDE IN TRIBAL SOCIETYS. MANY DANCES WERE OFTEN MARTIAL ART TRAINING SORT OF LIKE THE KATA IN TODAYS MARTIAL ARTS. THIS WAS ESPECIALLY TRUE IN OCEANIC ,POLYNESIAN SOCIETYS.

Outstanding points of reference thanks Vandoo.
I cannot find any reference at this point int time for these smooth clubs without markings as usually found with this shape. Can anyone suggest some light reading on the matter? I am starting to take an interest in weapons of our Australian neighbours . The hilt differences are interesting to me too. the one on the left almost reminds me of a Bhutanese sword hilt. There is one small pic in Stones under clubs that point to this shape being as you say New Guinea but this too has engravings on it if you look very close. Who can I ask to discuss age and development of these clubs?

Gav

[Gavin Nugent]

Thanks Tim I will sure to post some good images when they arrive and thats for the info you have provided Fearn, very helpful.

Gav

[VANDOO]

I USED TO HAVE QUITE A FEW PICTURES OF A GOOD RANGE OF THESE CLUBS AS WELL AS THOUSANDS OF OTHER PICTURES COLLECTED OVER THE LAST 10 YEARS. BUT THE GREAT GOD OF THE INTERNET MICROSOFT RECENTLY GAVE ME A FREE UPGRADE I DID NOT APPROVE OF OR ASK FOR AND IT IS NOW GONE ALONG WITH ALL MY ADDRESSES AND OTHER COMPUTER FILES AND FUNCTIONS. SO I CAN ONLY OFFER PICTURES OF A MAP AND ONE RECENT CLUB SOUVINEER QUALITY, DEFINITELY A DANCE/WALLHANGER. THERE SEEMS TO BE A LOT OF THESE COMING FROM THAT AREA LATELY AS THE EBAY ETH. ART DEALERS HAVE BEEN PUTTING THEM UP A LOT. EVEN THE OLDER PLAIN ONES USED TO BE REASONABLY PRICED BUT NOW THEY ARE WORKS OF ART NOT WEAPONS SO HANG ON TO YOUR WALLET THE SAME CAN BE SAID OF AUSTRALIAN ABORIGINAL WEAPONS LATELY.
BUT THEY ARE STILL A BARGAIN COMPARED TO GOOD SOUTH PACIFIC CLUBS. SUCH AS MARQUESAS, COOK ISLANDS, FIJI, ECT.

[Gavin Nugent]

Thanks Vandoo.

Here is a link and a little more info as Fearn has already pointed out. It seems they were an every day use item, maybe the plainer type I presented denote a more common place in their society? Maybe the are just really old?

http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms...s/1900.55.400/


Gav

[Gavin Nugent]

Hi guys and gals,

Here are the images of these clubs now that they have arrived.

They are both king and queen ebony, being a mixture of Black (king) and Brown (queen) ebony.

Very smooth old wood patina, lovely to the eye and touch.

The larger looking club has a hilt of 20cms overall, being 8cms wide at the cross guard. The "blade" is 53cms long, being 6cms wide at the hilt and swelling to 8cms wide near the tip. The hilt it approx 3cms thick at the widest point and the blade is approx 2cms thick at the widest point with a lovely oval taper to the "cutting" edge.

The other has a hilt of 19cms long, cross guard of 8cms, blade 53cms long, being 4cms wide at the hilt and 8cms at the tip, the pommel is 4cms thick and the cross guard is 3 cms thick, the blade being 2cms thick at the hilt and 1.5 cms thick at the tip, again with a lovely oval cross section.

They are a devistating weapon and my appreciation for ethnographical clubs has grown considerabely upon handling these two.

Gav

[fearn]

Niiiiice! Congrats on getting them!

F

[Gavin Nugent]

Thanks Fearn,

Looking at image one in the last post by me, the pommels have a "crown" look to it that I have seen somewhere else in the spaces of time but I cannot put my finger on it. Can yourself or anyone else point out where I have seen this "style" of crown or Head Dress???

Gav

[VANDOO]

LOOKS LIKE TWO GOOD OLD ONES MADE FOR USE NOT SHOW. CONGRADULATIONS!

THESE CLUBS FALL INTO THE CATAGORY OF SWORD LIKE CLUBS AS THEY CAN CUT AS WELL AS BREAK BONES. THE FORM HAS SHARP EDGES AND SOMETIMES HAS A SHARP TIP BUT THIS FORM FROM THIS AREA USUALLY HAS THE WIDE BLUNT TIP, AT LEAST THE OLD ONES I HAVE SEEN DO.
I AM NOT SURE OF THE TIME LINE OF THIS FORM OF CLUBS BUT SUSPECT THEY ARE PRE-CONTACT AT LEAST AS FAR AS EUROPEAN CONTACT AND THE ARRIVAL OF METAL TOOLS. SO ANY SIMULARITYS TO EUROPEAN WEAPONS IS PROBABLY COINCIDENCE, THE SHAPE OF THE POMMEL PROBABLY HAS SOME TRIBAL SYMBOLISM AND REPRESENTS SOMETHING FROM THEIR CULTURES BELIEFS.
MOST CLUBS ARE DESIGNED FOR BLUNT TRAMA AND BONE AND HEAD BREAKING. FIJI CLUBS RANGE FROM THROWING CLUBS TO BONE BREAKERS TO ONES TO POKE A HOLE IN A HEAD VERY EASILY. SAMOA HAS QUITE A FEW WITH ONE OR MORE ROW OF SPIKES ALONG THE EDGES DESIGNED TO POKE HOLES AS WELL AS BREAK BONES.
THE MAORI OF NEW ZEALAND FENCED WITH THEIR SHORT PATA CLUBS AS WELL AS THE LONGER TYPES OF CLUBS THEY ALSO HAVE SHARP EDGES DESIGNED TO CUT AND BREAK BONES. THATS JUST A BRIEF RUNDOWN ON CLUBS BUT THERE IS QUITE A RANGE OF TYPES AND PROBABLY MANY DIFFERENT FIGHTING STYLES.

THE GROOVE ON THE END PROBABLY HAD A WOVEN FIBER BAND TO HELP KEEP IT FROM SPLITTING AND SOMEWHERE I REMEMBER SEEING SOME FEATHERS OR SOMETHING ATTACHED TO SUCH BANDS AND READ THEY WERE TO WAVE AT YOUR ENEMY WHILE TAUNTING HIM. PERHAPS WHEN YOU DO YOUR RESEARCH IF YOU RUN ACROSS ANYTHING YOU CAN ADD THE REFRENCES HERE. MY MEMORY OF WHERE OR WHEN I SAW OR READ SOMETHING CAN ONLY BE CONSIDERED CONJECTURE UNTIL THE REFRENCES CAN BE FOUND AND NOTED.

[Tim Simmons]

I snaffled this last weekend. I show it with a Vanuatu club just to give you an idea of how skullsplittingjawbrakingbonesmashingly!!!! nice it is.

I have found amongest other information from "The Art of Kula" Shirley F Campell, an Aussie. That a great deal of wood artifacts were made and traded through out the Massim area. There was a large centre of manufacture at Boitalu in the Kuboma district. In the Trobriand Islands there are two types of wood carver the "tokabitam" who carved with magic and "tokataraki" who did not. The Kuboma and other tokatarati carved utilitarian items like bowls, plates, combs, clubs. They were looked down on by the tokabitam.

[Tim Simmons]

Something put me off this one, not just the price. It is damaged and is clearly not made for use. I think I have saved a picture. It weighs over 2kg I would think it would be impossible to control in a fight.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...56&ssPageName=