Melanesian sword club

Tim Simmons · 12th December 2014, 09:56 PM

Probably the last addition to the collection 2014. I look forward to posting better pictures when it arrives. Seasons greetings and a happy new year with good luck for finds in 2015.

VANDOO · 14th December 2014, 06:53 PM

IT LOOKS LIKE A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THE LONG THIN FORM DOES IT HAVE ANY CARVED DESIGNS? 2014 SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN A GOOD YEAR FOR COLLECTING FOR MANY OF US , MAY 2015 BE EVEN BETTER FOR US ALL.

Tim Simmons · 10th January 2015, 10:55 AM

Finally this has arrived. I can understand if your are not interested in clubs and especially the less decorative or iconic examples. It is hard to enthuse about what looks to be in essence a stick. However to me this is a very interesting sword club with a good age too. It is beautifully slender yet quite heavy. Put next to a Massim example a great difference can be seen. It is a little thicker than the Massim sword club. It could be used in a fast manner. I think of fantasy Oriental kungfu fighters delivering multiple blows in the blink of an eye. Easily heavy enough to render an opponent unable to retaliate. Enough of that, the style is quite unusual when one thinks of Massim/Papuan sword clubs. The origin is unknown to me. I tend to think of Melanesia but it could also be from South America. Any thoughts as to origin? please do not hold back.

kronckew · 10th January 2015, 04:44 PM

sometimes less is more, less decorated ones, like with steel weapons, are frequently meant for serious business rather than showing off. the wood on your new companion looks great.

one of my end of year purchases: arnis sword/club bahi wood (coconut) 30 in. i liked the wood...

colin henshaw · 10th January 2015, 06:33 PM

Those "square-cut" protusions and the type of palmwood...to me signify South America rather than Melanesia. Somewhere in Micronesia could also be possible...

KuKulzA28 · 10th January 2015, 11:24 PM

I agree, square cut is reminiscent of South America but, to be honest I am very unsure.

There's definitely a few fans of clubs and sticks Tim, even if they aren't socially glorified like swords

Tim Simmons · 11th January 2015, 03:19 PM

Thank you for the replies. Colin thanks again for your observations. You saw this big long club when you were last here and suggested South America as the origin. I always harbored a little doubt. Now though I see your insight was correct, you do that quite often, well done! What would be good is to find more information on exactly where and who in South America? Obviously the clubs come from the same region. Can anybody help with this or be able to show other example that display the same form of structure?

colin henshaw · 12th January 2015, 06:09 PM

Thanks Tim. The nearest examples I can find to your club, are as shown in these two illustrations from "The History of Mankind" by Ratzel 1897. Seemingly, the Umauas Indians lived in the Japura River region, which is to be found in the northwest of Brazil near to Colombia and Venezuela. Not a lot of help really, but if I find anything more, I will post it.

VANDOO · 12th January 2015, 08:47 PM

MY FEELING IS THE CLUB IS MORE LIKELY FROM THE AREA OF NEW GUINEA OR THE ISLANDS IN THAT GENERAL REGION. WHERE DID THE SELLER SHIP IT FROM AND WHAT WAS HIS DESCRIPTION? IF IT CAME FROM AUSTRALIA THAT WILL LIKELY BE CONFIRMATION THAT IT WAS FROM THAT REGION.
CLUBS AND OTHER WEAPONS OFTEN HAVE SIMILAR COUNTERPARTS IN OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD. SO IT MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO IDENTIFY THINGS ONLY FROM WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE AND WHAT THEY ARE MADE OF. UNFORTUNATELY GOOD PROVENANCE IS RARE OR QUESTIONABLE SO WE ARE LEFT WITH GUESSES BASED ON LOGIC AND COMPARISONS OR CONJECTURE. A NICE CLUB REGARDLESS.

Tim Simmons · 13th January 2015, 08:26 AM

It was shipped from the USA and described as Nilotic.

kronckew · 13th January 2015, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

It was shipped from the USA and described as Nilotic.

my best silver handled burmese dha was sold as an egyptian machete.
mini photo attached to show how wrong that was...

many secrets are hidden by the shifting sands of time and the annual floods...

p.s. - my initial impression of your club was more pacific oriented. the two 'guard' bands at the grip remind me of the cook island sword clubs, with yours being a narrower version.

VANDOO · 13th January 2015, 06:21 PM

A GOOD OBSERVATION THESE KNOBS REPRESENT EYES ON MARQUESAS AND COOK ISLAND CLUBS. THE EYES ARE OBVIOUS ON THE LARGE FANCY CLUBS BUT PERHAPS JUST REPRESENTED AS KNOBS ON SMALLER MORE COMMON OR PLAIN EXAMPLES. NO DOUBT THERE WERE MANY VARIATIONS ON THE VARIOUS ISLANDS AND THE QUALITY RANGED FROM THE CHIEF OR PRIESTS FANCY CLUBS TO THOSE USED BY THE YOUNG WARRIORS TRYING TO PROVE THEMSELVES.
COLLECTORS PAST AND PRESENT USUALLY GO FOR THE FANCY EXAMPLES SO THE MORE COMMON FORMS ARE OFTEN NOT SEEN OR DOCUMENTED IN MUSEUMS OR BOOKS.
NIOLITHIC SOUNDS MORE CULTURED THAN STONE AGE

TODAY THE TERM IS USED A LOT TO DESCRIBE ITEMS FROM NEW GUINEA AND AUSTRALIA BUT COULD APPLY TO ANYWHERE DEPENDING ON THE AGE OF THE ITEM. IN TODAY'S WORLD SOME PEOPLE ARE STILL IN THE STONE AGE IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

Tim Simmons · 15th January 2015, 06:08 PM

Enter club or sword weapon in the search box here and I think this slim sword club has more in common with South American {Paraguay Amazon} examples than Oceanic.

http://anthro.amnh.org/south

12th December 2014, 09:56 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Melanesian sword club Probably the last addition to the collection 2014. I look forward to posting better pictures when it arrives. Seasons greetings and a happy new year with good luck for finds in 2015. Attached Images

10th January 2015, 10:55 AM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Finally this has arrived. I can understand if your are not interested in clubs and especially the less decorative or iconic examples. It is hard to enthuse about what looks to be in essence a stick. However to me this is a very interesting sword club with a good age too. It is beautifully slender yet quite heavy. Put next to a Massim example a great difference can be seen. It is a little thicker than the Massim sword club. It could be used in a fast manner. I think of fantasy Oriental kungfu fighters delivering multiple blows in the blink of an eye. Easily heavy enough to render an opponent unable to retaliate. Enough of that, the style is quite unusual when one thinks of Massim/Papuan sword clubs. The origin is unknown to me. I tend to think of Melanesia but it could also be from South America. Any thoughts as to origin? please do not hold back. Attached Images

10th January 2015, 04:44 PM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,187	sometimes less is more, less decorated ones, like with steel weapons, are frequently meant for serious business rather than showing off. the wood on your new companion looks great. one of my end of year purchases: arnis sword/club bahi wood (coconut) 30 in. i liked the wood... Attached Images

11th January 2015, 03:19 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Thank you for the replies. Colin thanks again for your observations. You saw this big long club when you were last here and suggested South America as the origin. I always harbored a little doubt. Now though I see your insight was correct, you do that quite often, well done! What would be good is to find more information on exactly where and who in South America? Obviously the clubs come from the same region. Can anybody help with this or be able to show other example that display the same form of structure? Attached Images

12th January 2015, 06:09 PM	#8
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Thanks Tim. The nearest examples I can find to your club, are as shown in these two illustrations from "The History of Mankind" by Ratzel 1897. Seemingly, the Umauas Indians lived in the Japura River region, which is to be found in the northwest of Brazil near to Colombia and Venezuela. Not a lot of help really, but if I find anything more, I will post it. Attached Images

14th December 2014, 06:53 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	IT LOOKS LIKE A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THE LONG THIN FORM DOES IT HAVE ANY CARVED DESIGNS? 2014 SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN A GOOD YEAR FOR COLLECTING FOR MANY OF US , MAY 2015 BE EVEN BETTER FOR US ALL.

10th January 2015, 06:33 PM	#5
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Those "square-cut" protusions and the type of palmwood...to me signify South America rather than Melanesia. Somewhere in Micronesia could also be possible...

10th January 2015, 11:24 PM	#6
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	I agree, square cut is reminiscent of South America but, to be honest I am very unsure. There's definitely a few fans of clubs and sticks Tim, even if they aren't socially glorified like swords

12th January 2015, 08:47 PM	#9
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	MY FEELING IS THE CLUB IS MORE LIKELY FROM THE AREA OF NEW GUINEA OR THE ISLANDS IN THAT GENERAL REGION. WHERE DID THE SELLER SHIP IT FROM AND WHAT WAS HIS DESCRIPTION? IF IT CAME FROM AUSTRALIA THAT WILL LIKELY BE CONFIRMATION THAT IT WAS FROM THAT REGION. CLUBS AND OTHER WEAPONS OFTEN HAVE SIMILAR COUNTERPARTS IN OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD. SO IT MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO IDENTIFY THINGS ONLY FROM WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE AND WHAT THEY ARE MADE OF. UNFORTUNATELY GOOD PROVENANCE IS RARE OR QUESTIONABLE SO WE ARE LEFT WITH GUESSES BASED ON LOGIC AND COMPARISONS OR CONJECTURE. A NICE CLUB REGARDLESS.

13th January 2015, 08:26 AM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	It was shipped from the USA and described as Nilotic.

13th January 2015, 06:21 PM	#12
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	A GOOD OBSERVATION THESE KNOBS REPRESENT EYES ON MARQUESAS AND COOK ISLAND CLUBS. THE EYES ARE OBVIOUS ON THE LARGE FANCY CLUBS BUT PERHAPS JUST REPRESENTED AS KNOBS ON SMALLER MORE COMMON OR PLAIN EXAMPLES. NO DOUBT THERE WERE MANY VARIATIONS ON THE VARIOUS ISLANDS AND THE QUALITY RANGED FROM THE CHIEF OR PRIESTS FANCY CLUBS TO THOSE USED BY THE YOUNG WARRIORS TRYING TO PROVE THEMSELVES. COLLECTORS PAST AND PRESENT USUALLY GO FOR THE FANCY EXAMPLES SO THE MORE COMMON FORMS ARE OFTEN NOT SEEN OR DOCUMENTED IN MUSEUMS OR BOOKS. NIOLITHIC SOUNDS MORE CULTURED THAN STONE AGE TODAY THE TERM IS USED A LOT TO DESCRIBE ITEMS FROM NEW GUINEA AND AUSTRALIA BUT COULD APPLY TO ANYWHERE DEPENDING ON THE AGE OF THE ITEM. IN TODAY'S WORLD SOME PEOPLE ARE STILL IN THE STONE AGE IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

15th January 2015, 06:08 PM	#13
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Enter club or sword weapon in the search box here and I think this slim sword club has more in common with South American {Paraguay Amazon} examples than Oceanic. http://anthro.amnh.org/south