Guaraní

KraVseR · 18th January 2015, 06:07 PM

Hello.
This is picture of Sepé Tiaraju, the leader of Guaraní. I have the question: what is it, that highlighted in red? War club or belt?

fernando · 18th January 2015, 07:37 PM

Surely no more than the longer one of the two ends of his cloth belt, in a manner stylized by the artist (Danubio Gonçalves).

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KraVseR · 19th January 2015, 01:42 PM

Ok, thanks.
Then what clubs was used by these tribes? Maybe somebody have the photos?

Tim Simmons · 19th January 2015, 05:53 PM

This club was on show in the Berlin Ethnographic museum when I visited 2011. It was labelled as being Northern Argentina. Northern Argentina is in The Guarani language sphere.

fernando · 19th January 2015, 06:30 PM

If you browse the net (at least in portuguese ) you will see that it depends on which tribes you are talking about. Guaranis are from the vast group Guarani/Tupi.
One type of club (porrete) is the Ibirapema or Tacape, made of wood with over 2 meters length, painted and decorated with feathers.
You may also call these clubs Bordunas, which englobes the Tacapa used by Chief Tibiriça (16th century), exhibited at the Historic Museum:
http://www.armasbrasil.com/Indio/bordunas.htm
Or the ones used by the Tukano ethny, with 1 meter length, made of heavy wood, used to crack the enemies skull.

.

Tim Simmons · 19th January 2015, 08:38 PM

These are clubs of the BraziIan Amazon. I got this one from a lady that works for the Brazil government (funai) a department for Indian affairs. She got this club from the Ikpeng. I believe the form is found among other near by indigenous groups. I think they are not part of the people that is the main concern of this thread?

fernando · 20th January 2015, 05:27 PM

You are right Tim. I just felt like showing a real Amerindian club example, instead of just drawings. As i said, it is a club from the Tukano tribes, which in fact are not from the Guarani/Tupi group.
On the other hand, the Guaranis are a large native people family, present in six different Brazilian States.
http://www.suapesquisa.com/musicacul..._indigenas.htm
In any case, the hero quoted in the thread was born in the 7 missions (situated in nowadays Rio Grande do Sul); thus the name attributed to such group being the Guaranis Missioneiros.
Probably such natives, being strongly influenced by Jesuits, adopted a more 'modern' type of weaponry, although the clubs relative to their ancestors would have been the Ibirapemas, as per above stilyzed drawings/paints.

Tim Simmons · 20th January 2015, 05:35 PM

The example from Berlin could be seen to relate to the forms in the drawings. Wish I had one.

18th January 2015, 06:07 PM	#1
KraVseR Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Ukraine Posts: 128	Guaraní Hello. This is picture of Sepé Tiaraju, the leader of Guaraní. I have the question: what is it, that highlighted in red? War club or belt? Attached Images

18th January 2015, 07:37 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Surely no more than the longer one of the two ends of his cloth belt, in a manner stylized by the artist (Danubio Gonçalves). . Attached Images

19th January 2015, 05:53 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	This club was on show in the Berlin Ethnographic museum when I visited 2011. It was labelled as being Northern Argentina. Northern Argentina is in The Guarani language sphere. Attached Images

19th January 2015, 06:30 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	If you browse the net (at least in portuguese ) you will see that it depends on which tribes you are talking about. Guaranis are from the vast group Guarani/Tupi. One type of club (porrete) is the Ibirapema or Tacape, made of wood with over 2 meters length, painted and decorated with feathers. You may also call these clubs Bordunas, which englobes the Tacapa used by Chief Tibiriça (16th century), exhibited at the Historic Museum: http://www.armasbrasil.com/Indio/bordunas.htm Or the ones used by the Tukano ethny, with 1 meter length, made of heavy wood, used to crack the enemies skull. . Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 19th January 2015 at 07:09 PM.

19th January 2015, 08:38 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	These are clubs of the BraziIan Amazon. I got this one from a lady that works for the Brazil government (funai) a department for Indian affairs. She got this club from the Ikpeng. I believe the form is found among other near by indigenous groups. I think they are not part of the people that is the main concern of this thread? Attached Images

19th January 2015, 01:42 PM	#3
KraVseR Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Ukraine Posts: 128	Ok, thanks. Then what clubs was used by these tribes? Maybe somebody have the photos?

20th January 2015, 05:27 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	You are right Tim. I just felt like showing a real Amerindian club example, instead of just drawings. As i said, it is a club from the Tukano tribes, which in fact are not from the Guarani/Tupi group. On the other hand, the Guaranis are a large native people family, present in six different Brazilian States. http://www.suapesquisa.com/musicacul..._indigenas.htm In any case, the hero quoted in the thread was born in the 7 missions (situated in nowadays Rio Grande do Sul); thus the name attributed to such group being the Guaranis Missioneiros. Probably such natives, being strongly influenced by Jesuits, adopted a more 'modern' type of weaponry, although the clubs relative to their ancestors would have been the Ibirapemas, as per above stilyzed drawings/paints.

20th January 2015, 05:35 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	The example from Berlin could be seen to relate to the forms in the drawings. Wish I had one.