Help with Afghan knife ID

theMarmotGuy · 26th April 2015, 11:32 AM

I have an item that just narrowly escaped the dump. I retrieved it from a house that I was tasked with "clearing for re-sale" after a marital/mental/financial breakdown. Knowing nothing about knives except the Swiss Army variety, I wish to gain some further appreciation of what "IT" is.

I know nothing about provenance, but I do know that the owner was ex-Canadian Forces, served in Afghanistan, and is currently under full-time physician care. My desire is to preserve this item, document it, and perhaps learn interesting things in the process. In a perfect world the ex-serviceman might want it back someday, and if your forum members could help, perhaps that could happen with an enhanced appreciation of the souvenir that he brought home...and then intentionally left behind.

The piece?
- it's hefty and solid (475 grams)
- full tang, wooden handle
- the engraving is asymmetrical
- the map of Afghanistan shows some interesting boundary issues
- the deer engraving is interesting in that the deer lack antlers (presumably a musk deer that was thought to have become extinct circa 1948?)

Restoration work?
- I wished I'd photographed it in situ. It was rusted and looked like junk.
- Only treatment so far has been WD-40 and elbow-grease.

I'll try to make some better images as the quality of the engraving is really nice. Sorry for my long-winded email, but I was dumbfounded when I couldn't find anything even remotely similar in blade-shape, construction or finishing.

Best wishes from Canada,
Andrew

Robert · 27th April 2015, 06:43 AM

TheMarmotGuy, I hope that you do not mind, but I have taken the liberty to do a little editing to your photos to help those how will be trying to help answer the questions that you have ask about this item.

Best,
Robert

spiral · 27th April 2015, 02:17 PM

Its a modern tourist souvenir, made to be sold to tourists.

Ian · 27th April 2015, 06:12 PM

Agree with Spiral. This is an Afghan attempt to imitate a Nepalese kukri, even down to the stylized cho at forte. The inscription of "Afghanistan" on the blade indicates it is a decorative item for the American/European tourist, and the lavish file work and chiseled embellishments are to make it more appealing to the Western tourist's eye.

Ian.

AJ1356 · 27th April 2015, 07:01 PM

A little not so well known fact about hese, they are made out of old car parts, like frames, leave springs, and what not, flattened and then grinded into whatever shape, no actual blacksmithing involved at all.

Tim Simmons · 27th April 2015, 07:06 PM

That's how a lot of new expensive Bowie and other knives are made, by most of the prestige knife makers. Produced ground from bar stock steel.

theMarmotGuy · 1st May 2015, 10:52 AM

Robert, your photo enhancements were welcomed, but most especially, thanks to all of your members who responded.

It makes sense that this is a modern "knock-off" for the tourist market, but I remain amazed that a) there IS such a market, and b) that an old-leaf-spring or automotive piece could be hammered and worked so beautifully.

Have I interpreted your comments correctly? That it was all "cold-hammered, chiseled and filed" with NO heat applied? Really? Wow. The time involved in hand-producing this just boggles the mind.

Last question: Would such steel take or hold an edge? Should I adopt it as a useful blackberry-whacking tool? It IS hefty. Or is it best left on the shelf?

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 1st May 2015, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theMarmotGuy

Robert, your photo enhancements were welcomed, but most especially, thanks to all of your members who responded.

It makes sense that this is a modern "knock-off" for the tourist market, but I remain amazed that a) there IS such a market, and b) that an old-leaf-spring or automotive piece could be hammered and worked so beautifully.

Have I interpreted your comments correctly? That it was all "cold-hammered, chiseled and filed" with NO heat applied? Really? Wow. The time involved in hand-producing this just boggles the mind.

Last question: Would such steel take or hold an edge? Should I adopt it as a useful blackberry-whacking tool? It IS hefty. Or is it best left on the shelf?

Salaams theMarmotGuy, The souk in central Kabul (Chicken Street) is fairly stuffed with such items. They occasionally get a container of work through to the other regional souks such as Sharjah or in lesser volumes either by road and ship or air...as I say in lesser volumes. It is almost totally knocked up in some workshop though there are workshops in Afghanistan that can produce excellent work ...mostly stuff like this is just churned out and not collectible though most people get taken in occasionally~ which is part of the game. With the various withdrawals of foreigners from the area there are much fewer Europeans in the market place and Chicken Street is having a difficult time ... The foreign tourism market collapsed years ago and foreigners are dwindling all the time thus dealers are trying to get their stuff abroad..

Leave it on the shelf...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Kubur · 1st May 2015, 09:01 PM

No really they have a chicken street?
I hope that they have a KFC in this street! I would prefer a chick's street

AJ1356 · 2nd May 2015, 03:41 AM

In the older days there were different streets for different trades in Kabul, such street like Hatters, Butchers, Flower Sellers, Blacksmiths and so on, Chicken Sellers Street, that is litteral translation of the name from Farsi, was one of them. Names of places should never be translated to another language, but somehow in the past 14 years some names in Kabul got translated by people who did not know, and maybe to pander to the foreigners. Anyways, since that street is centrally located in Kabul, in the 60s or so it became the main antique bazaar in Kabul, however the old name stuck, and once it was translated to English, the Sellers part was droped and now you have Chicken St, but the locals still call it by the original name. I hope that answered your question.
And for the OP, I don't think it would hold an edge for long.

26th April 2015, 11:32 AM	#1
theMarmotGuy Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 2	Help with Afghan knife ID I have an item that just narrowly escaped the dump. I retrieved it from a house that I was tasked with "clearing for re-sale" after a marital/mental/financial breakdown. Knowing nothing about knives except the Swiss Army variety, I wish to gain some further appreciation of what "IT" is. I know nothing about provenance, but I do know that the owner was ex-Canadian Forces, served in Afghanistan, and is currently under full-time physician care. My desire is to preserve this item, document it, and perhaps learn interesting things in the process. In a perfect world the ex-serviceman might want it back someday, and if your forum members could help, perhaps that could happen with an enhanced appreciation of the souvenir that he brought home...and then intentionally left behind. The piece? - it's hefty and solid (475 grams) - full tang, wooden handle - the engraving is asymmetrical - the map of Afghanistan shows some interesting boundary issues - the deer engraving is interesting in that the deer lack antlers (presumably a musk deer that was thought to have become extinct circa 1948?) Restoration work? - I wished I'd photographed it in situ. It was rusted and looked like junk. - Only treatment so far has been WD-40 and elbow-grease. I'll try to make some better images as the quality of the engraving is really nice. Sorry for my long-winded email, but I was dumbfounded when I couldn't find anything even remotely similar in blade-shape, construction or finishing. Best wishes from Canada, Andrew Attached Images

27th April 2015, 06:43 AM	#2
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	TheMarmotGuy, I hope that you do not mind, but I have taken the liberty to do a little editing to your photos to help those how will be trying to help answer the questions that you have ask about this item. Best, Robert Attached Images Last edited by Robert; 27th April 2015 at 04:44 PM.

1st May 2015, 10:52 AM	#7
theMarmotGuy Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 2	Thank You! Robert, your photo enhancements were welcomed, but most especially, thanks to all of your members who responded. It makes sense that this is a modern "knock-off" for the tourist market, but I remain amazed that a) there IS such a market, and b) that an old-leaf-spring or automotive piece could be hammered and worked so beautifully. Have I interpreted your comments correctly? That it was all "cold-hammered, chiseled and filed" with NO heat applied? Really? Wow. The time involved in hand-producing this just boggles the mind. Last question: Would such steel take or hold an edge? Should I adopt it as a useful blackberry-whacking tool? It IS hefty. Or is it best left on the shelf?

27th April 2015, 02:17 PM	#3
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Its a modern tourist souvenir, made to be sold to tourists.

27th April 2015, 06:12 PM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Agree with Spiral. This is an Afghan attempt to imitate a Nepalese kukri, even down to the stylized cho at forte. The inscription of "Afghanistan" on the blade indicates it is a decorative item for the American/European tourist, and the lavish file work and chiseled embellishments are to make it more appealing to the Western tourist's eye. Ian.

27th April 2015, 07:01 PM	#5
AJ1356 Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Nashville Posts: 314	A little not so well known fact about hese, they are made out of old car parts, like frames, leave springs, and what not, flattened and then grinded into whatever shape, no actual blacksmithing involved at all.

27th April 2015, 07:06 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	That's how a lot of new expensive Bowie and other knives are made, by most of the prestige knife makers. Produced ground from bar stock steel.

1st May 2015, 09:01 PM	#9
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	No really they have a chicken street? I hope that they have a KFC in this street! I would prefer a chick's street

2nd May 2015, 03:41 AM	#10
AJ1356 Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Nashville Posts: 314	In the older days there were different streets for different trades in Kabul, such street like Hatters, Butchers, Flower Sellers, Blacksmiths and so on, Chicken Sellers Street, that is litteral translation of the name from Farsi, was one of them. Names of places should never be translated to another language, but somehow in the past 14 years some names in Kabul got translated by people who did not know, and maybe to pander to the foreigners. Anyways, since that street is centrally located in Kabul, in the 60s or so it became the main antique bazaar in Kabul, however the old name stuck, and once it was translated to English, the Sellers part was droped and now you have Chicken St, but the locals still call it by the original name. I hope that answered your question. And for the OP, I don't think it would hold an edge for long.