An Ottoman Yataghan That Landed Far Away From Home

CharlesS · 7th May 2019, 04:35 PM

I recently bought this yataghan from Artzi. It caught my attention because of the floral motifs to the scabbard and bolster. They did not look Ottoman to me but did look Indonesian or Malaysian, not to mention the way the scabbard was mounted with silver decorated bands, mouth, and chape. Note also the scabbard is tropical wood, often seen or Moro scabbards and hilts. I noted also that there was no opening for part of the hilt at the mouth of the scabbard like we see on so many yataghans. The hilt is black horn(SE Asian water buffalo???)

While discussing it with Artzi, he told me that it had been in their personal collection for years and that he bought it in a little antique shop in Hong Kong quite a long time ago. That's when I suggested that possibility that it was an Ottoman made blade mounted in a more Moro/Indonesian/Malay style.

So my theory is quite simple, and the same that I shared with Artzi...that is that this is an Ottoman made yataghan blade that ended, likely via trade or pirating, in SE Asia.

With that in mind, it is important to confirm as far as in possible that there are no other known...for sure...examples of other yats mounted this way from WITHIN the Ottoman empire. I am grateful for any help here from our forum members. I am also curious if the inscription on the blade can be translated, and if, by chance, it may be Jawi?

Here is another example, previously discussed with a similar origin and fate.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5955

Thanks for any input!

This yataghan:

Dimensions:
Overall length: 32in.
Blade length: 26in.
Blade's widest point: 1.85in.

Kubur · 7th May 2019, 04:53 PM

Mmmmm if you want some inputs

IMHO your yataghan is Ottoman Turkish, the silver work is Ottoman Turkish, the hilt and the scabbard smell a bit North Africa...

There is nothing South-East Asian here, sorry.

It's another story for the other one
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5955
No problem here with a South East Asian attribution

If you turn your photo, you will see Arabic script on your blade.

TVV · 7th May 2019, 04:54 PM

I am not familiar with the mounts - the decorative motives are Ottoman, but a wooden scabbard with no leather, multiple bands holding the scabbard together and no dragon at the chape is a bit unusual, so it is possible that it was mounted in SE Asia. The blade looks like an older blade (18th century) most probably from Asia Minor and the writing looks like the seven sleepers formula. There is a very high probability that the blade has a few rows of Turkish ribbon - have you tried etching it?

Teodor

CharlesS · 7th May 2019, 06:54 PM

Teodor,

The blade has been etched. There was a distinct temper line, but no Turkish ribbon.

Gustav · 7th May 2019, 08:19 PM

Well, here is one, which is indeed mounted somewhere in Indonesia:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...han+indonesian

I have seen at least one other, which quite clearly was mounted in Sumatra.

Never have encountered such quite typical "Turkish Rococo" ornaments in Indonesia. It also doesn't look like Dutch colonial Rococo.

Kubur · 7th May 2019, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

Never have encountered such quite typical "Turkish Rococo" ornaments in Indonesia. It also doesn't look like Dutch colonial Rococo.

Correct but they were doing Turkish rococo in Algiers too.
The scabbard is more flissa-ish

Sometimes it's difficult to get some responses different from your own narrative but it's the whole idea of this forum...

Oliver Pinchot · 8th May 2019, 05:16 PM

Charles is right, it's an Ottoman sword which was remounted somewhere in SEA. The Ottoman parts comprise the blade, bolsters, tangband, locket and chape. The grips, scabbard and remaining bands are local work.
Examine the engraving on the bands: they are similar to, but distinct from, the original Ottoman parts.

The sword was most likely acquired as a complete yataghan, or one with at least a single ear intact-- otherwise, the grips wouldn't flare as they do. As these hybrids go, the aesthetic is pleasing.

CharlesS · 8th May 2019, 07:17 PM

The blade reversed for easier Arabic script translation.

Zifir · 17th May 2019, 09:03 AM

As Teodor pointed out, these are the names of seven sleepers and their dog:

"Yemliha, Mekselina, Mislina, Mernuş, Debernuş, Şazenuş, Kefeştatayuş, and Kıtmir."

They inscribed them on yatağans, believing to have talismanic powers, protecting owners from harm.

There is a chapter (Surat al-Kahf) in the Qur'an, on the miracle of seven sleepers and their dog: seven Christian men and their dog escaping from the persecution of the Romans, seeking shelter in a cave and sleeping several hundred years and waking up. References to strength of faith, divine protection of the believers, life after death and resurrection.

7th May 2019, 04:35 PM	#1
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	An Ottoman Yataghan That Landed Far Away From Home I recently bought this yataghan from Artzi. It caught my attention because of the floral motifs to the scabbard and bolster. They did not look Ottoman to me but did look Indonesian or Malaysian, not to mention the way the scabbard was mounted with silver decorated bands, mouth, and chape. Note also the scabbard is tropical wood, often seen or Moro scabbards and hilts. I noted also that there was no opening for part of the hilt at the mouth of the scabbard like we see on so many yataghans. The hilt is black horn(SE Asian water buffalo???) While discussing it with Artzi, he told me that it had been in their personal collection for years and that he bought it in a little antique shop in Hong Kong quite a long time ago. That's when I suggested that possibility that it was an Ottoman made blade mounted in a more Moro/Indonesian/Malay style. So my theory is quite simple, and the same that I shared with Artzi...that is that this is an Ottoman made yataghan blade that ended, likely via trade or pirating, in SE Asia. With that in mind, it is important to confirm as far as in possible that there are no other known...for sure...examples of other yats mounted this way from WITHIN the Ottoman empire. I am grateful for any help here from our forum members. I am also curious if the inscription on the blade can be translated, and if, by chance, it may be Jawi? Here is another example, previously discussed with a similar origin and fate. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5955 Thanks for any input! This yataghan: Dimensions: Overall length: 32in. Blade length: 26in. Blade's widest point: 1.85in. Attached Images

8th May 2019, 07:17 PM	#8
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	The blade reversed for easier Arabic script translation. Attached Images

7th May 2019, 04:53 PM	#2
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Mmmmm if you want some inputs IMHO your yataghan is Ottoman Turkish, the silver work is Ottoman Turkish, the hilt and the scabbard smell a bit North Africa... There is nothing South-East Asian here, sorry. It's another story for the other one http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5955 No problem here with a South East Asian attribution If you turn your photo, you will see Arabic script on your blade.

7th May 2019, 04:54 PM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,619	I am not familiar with the mounts - the decorative motives are Ottoman, but a wooden scabbard with no leather, multiple bands holding the scabbard together and no dragon at the chape is a bit unusual, so it is possible that it was mounted in SE Asia. The blade looks like an older blade (18th century) most probably from Asia Minor and the writing looks like the seven sleepers formula. There is a very high probability that the blade has a few rows of Turkish ribbon - have you tried etching it? Teodor

7th May 2019, 06:54 PM	#4
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Teodor, The blade has been etched. There was a distinct temper line, but no Turkish ribbon.

7th May 2019, 08:19 PM	#5
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,246	Well, here is one, which is indeed mounted somewhere in Indonesia: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...han+indonesian I have seen at least one other, which quite clearly was mounted in Sumatra. Never have encountered such quite typical "Turkish Rococo" ornaments in Indonesia. It also doesn't look like Dutch colonial Rococo.

8th May 2019, 05:16 PM	#7
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 457	Charles is right, it's an Ottoman sword which was remounted somewhere in SEA. The Ottoman parts comprise the blade, bolsters, tangband, locket and chape. The grips, scabbard and remaining bands are local work. Examine the engraving on the bands: they are similar to, but distinct from, the original Ottoman parts. The sword was most likely acquired as a complete yataghan, or one with at least a single ear intact-- otherwise, the grips wouldn't flare as they do. As these hybrids go, the aesthetic is pleasing.

17th May 2019, 09:03 AM	#9
Zifir Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Istanbul Posts: 228	As Teodor pointed out, these are the names of seven sleepers and their dog: "Yemliha, Mekselina, Mislina, Mernuş, Debernuş, Şazenuş, Kefeştatayuş, and Kıtmir." They inscribed them on yatağans, believing to have talismanic powers, protecting owners from harm. There is a chapter (Surat al-Kahf) in the Qur'an, on the miracle of seven sleepers and their dog: seven Christian men and their dog escaping from the persecution of the Romans, seeking shelter in a cave and sleeping several hundred years and waking up. References to strength of faith, divine protection of the believers, life after death and resurrection.