ANYONE RECOGNISE THIS BLADE

[Royston]

My collection of "oddities" continues to grow. It appears that very few of my weapons fit into a definite category.

I am sure that this must be a European blade, but what ? I have never collected Western swords. Almost looks like a Chassepot bayonet that has been browned.
The sword is about 2 ft long. The scabbard is wood covered with thin, low grade, sheet silver.
Hilt is horn, probably buffalo ? Malaysian ? Indonesian ? Phillipines ? Must be from around there somewhere.
Vendor said it was some sort of Dha !!!!!!!!!!

I would be greatful for any suggestions
Thanks
Royston

[Atlantia]

WOW!
Thats a weird beastie!
A pattern welded blade that looks like its from a yataghan bladed British or French bayonet? Whats going on there?
Very very nice though!

[fearn]

Some Indonesian smith got creative.

F

[Henk]

Very interesting!!
It is an indonesian pamorblade. Looks like the smith was inspired by the dutch klewang.
I think we can talk about a pedang lurus or a straight sword. That's my first impresson at the moment.

[asomotif]

Before 1900 the whole of europe was using this shape of bayonet.

And that must have been the inspiration for the smith, as this is clearly not a militairy blade.

very nice all together

ps I first read, RENCONGNISE instead of recognise

[Rick]

The blade says Bali to me .
There's something about how the fuller terminates ...

[A. G. Maisey]

I can see a lot of Jawa in this weapon.

I understand why you have nominated Bali, Rick, but old Javanese blades had the same finish that we are used to seeing on Bali blades. If you see old blades that were made in Jawa pre, say, 1900, and that have not been subjected to periodic cleaning and staining, what you see is a finish that we would call a Balinese finish.

Apart from which, Bali at the time when this blade would have been made had virtually no European influence. Jawa had a lot of European influence, to the point where the aristocrats were even adopting and adapting European dress.

I think I'd be inclined to call this piece 19th. century Jawa.

[Atlantia]

You know what Roy, I find I've been pondering this for most of the evening. I think this is one of the most interesting 'oddities' I've seen in a long while.
What a fantastic idea, east copys west copying east.
I would love to see the tang on that blade, not loose is it?
I find myself wondering if it was made specifically for a colonial officer, emulating the late 19thC 'sidearm' bayonets of the period? Or a local official in the style of their colonial masters? Local honour guard carrying copies of european blades?
Whats the back edge of the blade like?
Wouldn't you love this one to be able to speak and tell its tale?
Its certainly unique in my very limited experience.

Regards
Gene

[Lew]

Reminds me of some Lombak blades.

Lew

[fearn]

Originally Posted by Henk

Very interesting!!
It is an indonesian pamorblade. Looks like the smith was inspired by the dutch klewang.
I think we can talk about a pedang lurus or a straight sword. That's my first impresson at the moment.

Interesting piece, Royston. What's also interesting is how our biases show. Taking tongue firmly in cheek, I'd point out that properly, this is a bayonet shaped object (BSO) or perhaps a yataghan shaped object (YSO). After all, if a European smith can only make a keris shaped object (KSO) or a katana shaped object (also KSO), then the rule should apply to Indonesian smiths as well. This is especially true if (as asomotif) notes, it's not a military blade.

My 0.02 sen,

F

[David]

Well Alan, i understand you reasoning here, but it's more than the finish that makes me think Bali (or Lombok). The pamor pattern and execution look more Balinese to me and that single fuller reminds me of some i have seen on Balinese keris pedang. Also, while i have never seen hilt motifs quite like this one it doesn't seem to say Jawa to me. But of course, this is all just speculation.
I do believe that what we can say with a fair bit of certainty is that it is NOT a European blade or a dha and that it is from some part of Indonesia.

[Royston]

Thanks to everyone for your replies.

It looks as though I got the approximate area correct if nothing else. I suppose I was expecting someone to come up with similar examples and tell me exactly what, where, date and name of maker.

The word naive springs to mind !!!!!

Fearn, I love your comment about biases. We all have our favourites.

Atlantia, Unfortunately the tang is not loose and I am somewhat reluctant to try heat to get it off.

Regards
Royston

[A. G. Maisey]

David, my opinion is based not only upon pamor, nor upon finish, nor upon the handle style.

All these things could be Javanese or Balinese, or even Lombok. I don't think we could place them in Sumatera, or somewhere else in the Archipelago, but just on the appearance of the components, sure we could place them in several different places.

However, what we have is a definite European pattern in the blade. We know that it not at all unusual to find Javanese made blades, and even complete weapons that are interpretations of European blades and weapons.

We know that there was virtually no European influence in either Bali or Lombok prior to the early years of the 20th century; we know that until well into the 20th century Sumatera was mostly isolated towns separated by jungle. The other parts of what is now Indonesia were colonial outposts.

Only in Jawa was there a strong European presence, and the skilled craftsmen necessary to produce a weapon as refined as is this one.

Combine this European presence with the ability to produce, and this piece must come from Jawa, unless its elements point in different direction , and in this case they do not.

The hilt motif could perhaps be an attempted copy of a European motif also.

[Rick]

The handle expresses a bit of Chinese influence IMO, I see almost a Bat like figure in the carving .

[CharlesS]

Here is another example of a similar type. I love the ferrule on this one, and it has a very nice pamor blade.