Timor Sword

Bill M · 21st May 2007, 07:45 PM

29" Long (OAL) Don't have a lot of details. Gotta run right now.

Comments?

Tim Simmons · 21st May 2007, 07:59 PM

Nice one Bill !! The whole thing is just great.

Even your avatar got a cheesy grin

carlos · 21st May 2007, 10:03 PM

I JUST FALL IN LOVE!!

BEATIFUL SWORD, AND IN A VERY GOOD CONDITION!!
CONGRATULATIONS!!
CARLOS

Marcokeris · 22nd May 2007, 12:23 PM

Beautifull!!! Congratulations

VVV · 22nd May 2007, 01:07 PM

Very nice Opi!

Michael

kai · 22nd May 2007, 08:45 PM

Bill, congrats for getting this piece from Arjan's collection! I like the carvings and the old fittings...

Michael, why do you think this is an Opi? The hilt and scabbard style seems to me in good agreement with what Albert van Zonneveld classifies as sword of the Timor group, type a, doesn't it?

While the short blade seems to be of good quality, I assume these are mainly status (or ceremonial) swords?

Regards,
Kai

VVV · 22nd May 2007, 09:13 PM

Kai,

I have always called the type a Timor sword an Opi.
But now when you bring it up maybe I have always been wrong on this?

Michael

kai · 23rd May 2007, 08:16 PM

Hello Michael,

AvZ's Opi examples display a distinct hilt and scabbard style. Aside from Stone, he only references W. Foy (1899).

Are there any other primary sources which support a connection between the name and either sword type?

Regards,
Kai

VVV · 23rd May 2007, 08:31 PM

Hello Kai,

I haven't either found that much on Timor weapon names.
Usually the Timor books I have, or have seen, are more into the "tribal art" aspects than weapons.
Unfortunately I don't have the Leiden catalogues on Timor where I suspect the local names are clarified.

Michael

Maurice · 11th June 2008, 10:47 AM

Hi Bill,

To bring up an old threat.
I was looking at old threats and I found this one.
I noticed immediately those sort of "pens" in the handle (sorry Bill, I messed with your nice pic :-) to make clear what I mean).
My rugi from Alor has on two places 2 kind of pens (metal bronzecolour), like your Timor sword. The pens in the rugi are not through the handle. At the other side of the handle it is just plain.
Are those pens in your Timor sword through the handle, and are they wood or also metal? And do you know what purpose it had?

Regards,
Maurice

Bill M · 11th June 2008, 02:06 PM

Hi Maurice,

The pins in mine are wood or horn.

The hilt is two pieces and then joined together. I suppose that there is a big flat pin (we call them "biscuits" in woodworking) that originates in the smaller side and then terminates inside the larger side where the pins are inserted.

This would hold the two pieces of the hilt together. This would make sense as they might not have a piece of horn big enough to make a one piece hilt.

I have another sword from the same area that has identical pin arrangement.

The pins on both of these go all the way through.

Does that help?

Maurice · 11th June 2008, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

Does that help?

Thanks Bill.
Than there is a purpose of the pins in your two pieces. Mine will still be a mistery than I believe.
Maybe you can sent me some pics of the other sword. :-)

Kind regards,
Maurice

21st May 2007, 07:45 PM	#1
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Timor Sword 29" Long (OAL) Don't have a lot of details. Gotta run right now. Comments? Attached Images

21st May 2007, 10:03 PM	#3
carlos Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 737	OHHHHH!! I JUST FALL IN LOVE!! BEATIFUL SWORD, AND IN A VERY GOOD CONDITION!! CONGRATULATIONS!! CARLOS

11th June 2008, 10:47 AM	#10
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,342	Hi Bill, To bring up an old threat. I was looking at old threats and I found this one. I noticed immediately those sort of "pens" in the handle (sorry Bill, I messed with your nice pic :-) to make clear what I mean). My rugi from Alor has on two places 2 kind of pens (metal bronzecolour), like your Timor sword. The pens in the rugi are not through the handle. At the other side of the handle it is just plain. Are those pens in your Timor sword through the handle, and are they wood or also metal? And do you know what purpose it had? Regards, Maurice Attached Images

11th June 2008, 02:06 PM	#11
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Hi Maurice, The pins in mine are wood or horn. The hilt is two pieces and then joined together. I suppose that there is a big flat pin (we call them "biscuits" in woodworking) that originates in the smaller side and then terminates inside the larger side where the pins are inserted. This would hold the two pieces of the hilt together. This would make sense as they might not have a piece of horn big enough to make a one piece hilt. I have another sword from the same area that has identical pin arrangement. The pins on both of these go all the way through. Does that help? Last edited by Bill Marsh; 11th June 2008 at 02:51 PM.

21st May 2007, 07:59 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Nice one Bill !! The whole thing is just great. Even your avatar got a cheesy grin

22nd May 2007, 12:23 PM	#4
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Beautifull!!! Congratulations

22nd May 2007, 01:07 PM	#5
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Very nice Opi! Michael

22nd May 2007, 08:45 PM	#6
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Bill, congrats for getting this piece from Arjan's collection! I like the carvings and the old fittings... Michael, why do you think this is an Opi? The hilt and scabbard style seems to me in good agreement with what Albert van Zonneveld classifies as sword of the Timor group, type a, doesn't it? While the short blade seems to be of good quality, I assume these are mainly status (or ceremonial) swords? Regards, Kai

22nd May 2007, 09:13 PM	#7
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Kai, I have always called the type a Timor sword an Opi. But now when you bring it up maybe I have always been wrong on this? Michael

23rd May 2007, 08:16 PM	#8
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Michael, AvZ's Opi examples display a distinct hilt and scabbard style. Aside from Stone, he only references W. Foy (1899). Are there any other primary sources which support a connection between the name and either sword type? Regards, Kai

23rd May 2007, 08:31 PM	#9
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Hello Kai, I haven't either found that much on Timor weapon names. Usually the Timor books I have, or have seen, are more into the "tribal art" aspects than weapons. Unfortunately I don't have the Leiden catalogues on Timor where I suspect the local names are clarified. Michael