Medieval Dagger?

erlikhan · 27th February 2006, 08:29 PM

I bought this dagger.Completely iron (hilt and blade 2 seperate pieces.Perhaps hilt was built with combining two seperate iron slabs too?).Claimed to be Byzantian by the seller who I am sure must not be recognized as an expert .. It looks patinated enough and naturally corroded to convince me.The hilt has corroded at some points and it is hollow structure inside,having even a spiderweb fossil. Edge is still quiet sharp. Thickens towards the tip. Please examine the blade and hilt.Can you please help me to define it better? Fits to a known model? Medieval Christian or Islamic? Or can be ancient?

regards

erlikhan · 1st March 2006, 04:07 PM

Can't anybody define this?

wolviex · 1st March 2006, 04:37 PM

I can't tell anything about the knife, but the metal looks new to me, deffinietely not as medieval product anyway

ham · 1st March 2006, 05:35 PM

Blade is probably 19th century, handle is a fabrication.
It has spent its formative years in salt water or acid.
I would avoid this one

Ham

ariel · 1st March 2006, 09:10 PM

Ham,
I love your definition: "... formative years".
I agree: despite heavy patination, the contours are not lost ar all. Definitely artificial and controlled ageing

erlikhan · 2nd March 2006, 12:42 AM

Thanks for all comments. Well, very interesting. In fact, I have shown it to a dealer friend of me as a third party ,who is well known and top level respected in market for his knowledge&experience about antique and archelogical , especially metal artifacts(but not a direct weapons specialist, who can determine age and tribe certainly). he seriously examined it with magnifier and dated not ancient but at least early or pre Ottoman and authentic, advising me not to sell it under a price almost 4 times of my purchase cost

.I would like to show it to someone else too, but he is the one to whom the other dealers often take their own artifacts to request for assistance

. Perhaps should I take the dagger back to my friend's place and sell it with a little profit to him?

ham · 2nd March 2006, 03:22 AM

In fact, I have shown it to a dealer friend of me... who is well known and top level respected in market for his knowledge&experience about antique and archelogical , especially metal artifacts. he seriously examined it with magnifier and dated not ancient but at least early or pre Ottoman and authentic

Erlikhan, if members of this forum can tell from jpegs what this fellow cannot with a magnifying glass, perhaps it would be wise to reconsider specialists.
This is not the sort of guidance any collector willingly seeks.

Ham

erlikhan · 2nd March 2006, 08:37 AM

yep.sometimes i wish we in the forum could come alltogether and discuss on pieces live.I think it would make us spend hours without getting bored .

27th February 2006, 08:29 PM	#1
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	Medieval Dagger? I bought this dagger.Completely iron (hilt and blade 2 seperate pieces.Perhaps hilt was built with combining two seperate iron slabs too?).Claimed to be Byzantian by the seller who I am sure must not be recognized as an expert .. It looks patinated enough and naturally corroded to convince me.The hilt has corroded at some points and it is hollow structure inside,having even a spiderweb fossil. Edge is still quiet sharp. Thickens towards the tip. Please examine the blade and hilt.Can you please help me to define it better? Fits to a known model? Medieval Christian or Islamic? Or can be ancient? regards Attached Images Last edited by erlikhan; 27th February 2006 at 10:57 PM.

2nd March 2006, 12:42 AM	#6
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	Thanks for all comments. Well, very interesting. In fact, I have shown it to a dealer friend of me as a third party ,who is well known and top level respected in market for his knowledge&experience about antique and archelogical , especially metal artifacts(but not a direct weapons specialist, who can determine age and tribe certainly). he seriously examined it with magnifier and dated not ancient but at least early or pre Ottoman and authentic, advising me not to sell it under a price almost 4 times of my purchase cost .I would like to show it to someone else too, but he is the one to whom the other dealers often take their own artifacts to request for assistance . Perhaps should I take the dagger back to my friend's place and sell it with a little profit to him? Last edited by erlikhan; 2nd March 2006 at 12:30 PM.

1st March 2006, 04:07 PM	#2
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	Can't anybody define this?

1st March 2006, 04:37 PM	#3
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	I can't tell anything about the knife, but the metal looks new to me, deffinietely not as medieval product anyway

1st March 2006, 05:35 PM	#4
ham Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 190	Blade is probably 19th century, handle is a fabrication. It has spent its formative years in salt water or acid. I would avoid this one Ham

1st March 2006, 09:10 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Ham, I love your definition: "... formative years". I agree: despite heavy patination, the contours are not lost ar all. Definitely artificial and controlled ageing

2nd March 2006, 03:22 AM	#7
ham Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 190	In fact, I have shown it to a dealer friend of me... who is well known and top level respected in market for his knowledge&experience about antique and archelogical , especially metal artifacts. he seriously examined it with magnifier and dated not ancient but at least early or pre Ottoman and authentic Erlikhan, if members of this forum can tell from jpegs what this fellow cannot with a magnifying glass, perhaps it would be wise to reconsider specialists. This is not the sort of guidance any collector willingly seeks. Ham

2nd March 2006, 08:37 AM	#8
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	yep.sometimes i wish we in the forum could come alltogether and discuss on pieces live.I think it would make us spend hours without getting bored .