Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 30th September 2017, 08:44 AM   #1
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,898
Default What & from Where?

I was not quite sure where I should put this little dagger.

Is it European or is it something from the East?

Does anybody know what it is?

Edit

as requested

Overall length 10" (253mm.) blade length 6" (152mm.)
Attached Images
   

Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 30th September 2017 at 10:25 AM.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th September 2017, 09:35 AM   #2
mariusgmioc
Member
 
mariusgmioc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Austria
Posts: 1,903
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
I was not quite sure where I should put this little dagger.

Is it European or is it something from the East?

Does anybody know what it is?
Hello Alan,

Never seen anything like this. However, maybe giving some dimmensions might help.
mariusgmioc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th September 2017, 03:30 PM   #3
Ren Ren
Member
 
Ren Ren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Russia, Moscow
Posts: 374
Default

Throwing dagger?

Last edited by Ren Ren; 1st October 2017 at 12:05 AM.
Ren Ren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th September 2017, 08:45 PM   #4
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,898
Default

No, definitely not. The hilt is heavier than the blade.

Incidentally, it is fine mechanical damascus.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th September 2017, 09:16 PM   #5
thinreadline
Member
 
thinreadline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Wirral
Posts: 1,204
Default

I have never seen anything quite like this before . but to me it looks like something from the Arts & Craft movement of the 1890s
thinreadline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th September 2017, 10:52 PM   #6
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Member
 
Ibrahiim al Balooshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,408
Default

It looks Indian . The way the blade is worked in two huge fullers...
Ibrahiim al Balooshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2017, 12:11 AM   #7
Ren Ren
Member
 
Ren Ren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Russia, Moscow
Posts: 374
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
No, definitely not. The hilt is heavier than the blade.

Incidentally, it is fine mechanical damascus.
In this case, I agree with
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinreadline
but to me it looks like something from the Arts & Craft movement of the 1890s
Ren Ren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2017, 12:46 AM   #8
Bob A
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 427
Default

My first impression was also Indian. The only basis for my opinion is the way that this blade, in common with some quality Indian blades, is treated as though steel was an entirely plastic medium. Working steel as though it was modeling clay is a feature which has made a deep impression on me.

That said, it is nothing I've ever seen before. It's a lovely, dramatic piece, to my eyes anyway.
Bob A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2017, 03:17 AM   #9
ariel
Member
 
ariel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
Default

Precisely my impression: like clay.

It’s lines just flow..

One of the most beautiful examples of metalwork I’ve seen.
ariel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2017, 11:33 AM   #10
mariusgmioc
Member
 
mariusgmioc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Austria
Posts: 1,903
Default

Yes, the fullered blade looks Indian, but the hilt looks so much Art Deco, European...
mariusgmioc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2017, 01:06 PM   #11
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,898
Default

Yes, you're right Marius, it is a combination of influences, in fact, if I look at it, I see very decided keris characteristics in the blade:- the strong ada-ada, the deep and pronounced kruwingan (fullers), the defined kusen.

So --- West meets East?

Any clues there do you think?
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2017, 05:48 PM   #12
Bob A
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 427
Default

Well, I had thought to note that the carving of keris blades was another example of artful steelcraft, but the fullers took me kattar-ward for my guess. The strict geometry of the hilt throws me, though. I can see where European or Arts and Crafts sensibility might have come into play. Perhaps even a touch of Arts Nouveau or Deco?
Bob A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2017, 07:53 PM   #13
kai
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,254
Thumbs up Very nice piece, Alan!

I'm with Bob - looks art nouveau / art deco to me, too.

I can see why the blade might resemble Indian (less so for Indonesian) work. I'd vote for European workmanship though.

Possibly a masonic piece?

Regards,
Kai
kai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st October 2017, 10:09 PM   #14
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,898
Default

Let us not forget that the Javanese keris was born from an Indian blade form, and during its developmental peiod was deeply influenced by art, culture and technology that came out of the Sub-Continent.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd October 2017, 06:36 AM   #15
Timo Nieminen
Member
 
Timo Nieminen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 422
Default

It looks thoroughly Indian to me.

What is the flower represented by the end of the hilt?
Timo Nieminen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd October 2017, 09:13 AM   #16
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,898
Default

No idea Timo, I think its just a flower that fits into that place, the buds of the open flower are on the sides of the hilt.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th October 2017, 03:42 PM   #17
mross
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 478
Default

I put my vote on an art dagger.
mross is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th October 2017, 04:35 PM   #18
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,127
Default

I wonder if this is not an example of modern bladesmithing art. If that is the case, with all the different influences the blade seems to hold, i am not sure that the area of origin would be of much significance in the global community of modern smithing art.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th October 2017, 11:20 PM   #19
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,898
Default

I do agree that the form of this dagger does not fit any known style, at least to my eyes, thus perhaps mross and David could well be close to the truth.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th October 2017, 02:17 AM   #20
Rick
Vikingsword Staff
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,294
Default

The form of this dagger is fraught with symbolism.
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.