A kard

Jens Nordlunde · 5th November 2005, 03:47 PM

Not so long ago I happened to get a kard. It is not the biggest of kards, but the quality is good. The two grip scales on the hilt are of walrus ivory, and between the scales the hilt is decorated with a floral design in gold. The blade is finely watered I a dark pattern. Total length 30 cm. Length of blade 19.5 cm.

Jens Nordlunde · 5th November 2005, 03:50 PM

The lower mount of the scabbard is made of silver and the upper with floral design in enamel in the colours turquoise, dark blue, green and a brownish red.

In his book Egerton describes a kard like this one #722 and plate XIV, and writes that it comes from Sind.

Tim Simmons · 5th November 2005, 03:53 PM

I take it is enamels on silver at the top of the scabbard, charming work. You are a lucky man. Tim

Jens Nordlunde · 5th November 2005, 06:00 PM

Hi Tim,
Yes the enamelded mount is gilded silver.

Battara · 5th November 2005, 09:48 PM

NUTS! Drooled on the keyboard again.

Tim Simmons · 5th November 2005, 10:56 PM

Looking more closely at the fabric covering the scabbard, is it the original green velvet that has faded and lost its pile or has this been stripped down and another fabric applied? There is a hint of a more lush green colour near the floral scabbard top but equally one could see an awkward khaki like fabric replacement. I would have thought this type of knife would have the best of everything. Tim

Tim Simmons · 5th November 2005, 11:11 PM

Just another thought has the bottom part of the scabbard lost its enamel. I find it interesting that they do not match, especially as I make this sort of thing myself, do you think there might be something wrong with it. Tim

ariel · 6th November 2005, 12:47 AM

The silverwork, the flower motives and, especially, the use of enamel look Bukharan to me. Very pretty dagger!

Battara · 6th November 2005, 01:29 AM

Gorgeous puppy!

I think that it lost its velvet pile.

Jens Nordlunde · 6th November 2005, 04:05 PM

The velvet on the scabbard is worn, but I believe it to be old. Originally the two mounts must have been en suite, but the lower most likely lost and the silver one put on instead.

Jens Nordlunde · 6th November 2005, 05:03 PM

Sorry, I forgot to mention the the enamelled top mount is also enemelled at the very top as is the loop at the top of the hilt.

Ariel, you may have a point, but what about the enamel colours? Could they make them so bright?
I know, that in spite of what others thought at the time, Hendley for one believed that enamel original came from Turkmenistan. In Egypt enemal from about 1700 BC has been found - so the art of enemalling is very old.

ariel · 6th November 2005, 07:21 PM

Jens,
You may have a good point.
Egerton writes about Indian/Persian enameling as being "champleve: and specifically mentions Sindh as the area producing enameling with a "blue with rich flowers" pattern.
Uzbek/Tajik origin was just a feeling. They made very similar champleve.

Tim Simmons · 6th November 2005, 07:44 PM

This is just a suggestion not a statement but could it be from Kashmir the floral design is very similar to that of 19th century furniture brought to Europe, well Britain certainly in Victorian times. The birds and flowers are also seen on blue Kashmir carpets and prayer rugs. Tim

Jens Nordlunde · 6th November 2005, 10:55 PM

Ariel and Tim,
I have been trying to read up on the enamel thing to day, but I have not found what I am looking for. I will go on reading to morrow, and when I find it I will return

.

In the time between - do we know anything about the colours made in Turkmenistan?
How many colour could they make, and were they bright?

ham · 16th November 2005, 10:25 AM

Note however that the motifs are N. Indian or Sind type rather than Bukharan.
Very nice example.

Ham

Jens Nordlunde · 16th November 2005, 02:35 PM

Yes Ham, I wote for Sind as well

.

We all know that the enamel technique used in India was champlevé. Can anyone then explain to me, why they in Kashmir used cloisonné, and one more thing, why did they not use the past all the others used in places like Lahore, Luchnow, Jaypore, Sind and other places, why did they paint the surface with a sort of silicate or readily fusible paint and then heat it moderately, sufficient to melt the paint but not to cause the colours to fuse together. From where did they learn this technique, when the others used quite another technique?

5th November 2005, 03:47 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	A kard Not so long ago I happened to get a kard. It is not the biggest of kards, but the quality is good. The two grip scales on the hilt are of walrus ivory, and between the scales the hilt is decorated with a floral design in gold. The blade is finely watered I a dark pattern. Total length 30 cm. Length of blade 19.5 cm. Attached Images

5th November 2005, 03:50 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	The lower mount of the scabbard is made of silver and the upper with floral design in enamel in the colours turquoise, dark blue, green and a brownish red. In his book Egerton describes a kard like this one #722 and plate XIV, and writes that it comes from Sind. Attached Images

6th November 2005, 05:03 PM	#11
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Sorry, I forgot to mention the the enamelled top mount is also enemelled at the very top as is the loop at the top of the hilt. Ariel, you may have a point, but what about the enamel colours? Could they make them so bright? I know, that in spite of what others thought at the time, Hendley for one believed that enamel original came from Turkmenistan. In Egypt enemal from about 1700 BC has been found - so the art of enemalling is very old. Last edited by Jens Nordlunde; 6th November 2005 at 05:19 PM.

6th November 2005, 10:55 PM	#14
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Ariel and Tim, I have been trying to read up on the enamel thing to day, but I have not found what I am looking for. I will go on reading to morrow, and when I find it I will return. In the time between - do we know anything about the colours made in Turkmenistan? How many colour could they make, and were they bright?

16th November 2005, 10:25 AM	#15
ham Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 190	Note however that the motifs are N. Indian or Sind type rather than Bukharan. Very nice example. Ham Last edited by ham; 16th November 2005 at 10:59 AM.

5th November 2005, 03:53 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I take it is enamels on silver at the top of the scabbard, charming work. You are a lucky man. Tim

5th November 2005, 06:00 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Tim, Yes the enamelded mount is gilded silver.

5th November 2005, 09:48 PM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	NUTS! Drooled on the keyboard again.

5th November 2005, 10:56 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Looking more closely at the fabric covering the scabbard, is it the original green velvet that has faded and lost its pile or has this been stripped down and another fabric applied? There is a hint of a more lush green colour near the floral scabbard top but equally one could see an awkward khaki like fabric replacement. I would have thought this type of knife would have the best of everything. Tim

5th November 2005, 11:11 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Just another thought has the bottom part of the scabbard lost its enamel. I find it interesting that they do not match, especially as I make this sort of thing myself, do you think there might be something wrong with it. Tim

6th November 2005, 12:47 AM	#8
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The silverwork, the flower motives and, especially, the use of enamel look Bukharan to me. Very pretty dagger!

6th November 2005, 01:29 AM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Gorgeous puppy! I think that it lost its velvet pile.

6th November 2005, 04:05 PM	#10
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	The velvet on the scabbard is worn, but I believe it to be old. Originally the two mounts must have been en suite, but the lower most likely lost and the silver one put on instead.

6th November 2005, 07:21 PM	#12
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Jens, You may have a good point. Egerton writes about Indian/Persian enameling as being "champleve: and specifically mentions Sindh as the area producing enameling with a "blue with rich flowers" pattern. Uzbek/Tajik origin was just a feeling. They made very similar champleve.

6th November 2005, 07:44 PM	#13
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	This is just a suggestion not a statement but could it be from Kashmir the floral design is very similar to that of 19th century furniture brought to Europe, well Britain certainly in Victorian times. The birds and flowers are also seen on blue Kashmir carpets and prayer rugs. Tim

16th November 2005, 02:35 PM	#16
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Yes Ham, I wote for Sind as well. We all know that the enamel technique used in India was champlevé. Can anyone then explain to me, why they in Kashmir used cloisonné, and one more thing, why did they not use the past all the others used in places like Lahore, Luchnow, Jaypore, Sind and other places, why did they paint the surface with a sort of silicate or readily fusible paint and then heat it moderately, sufficient to melt the paint but not to cause the colours to fuse together. From where did they learn this technique, when the others used quite another technique?