Draw Cut?

[Stan S.]

Hey all,

I am somewhat embarassed to admit this but while commonly seeing a reference to a "draw cut" in various literature that describes Middle Eastern martial arts, I fail to understand what exactly it entails. I understand a slash, chop, stab, thrust, etc. but how does one perform a draw cut? Please educate me. Thanks

[Gavin Nugent]

Hi Stan,

It is the very first cut made on drawing the sabre from the scabbard.

Suspension in these regions typically aligns and allows for a very simple fast and effective draw in an arc that I have found usually crosses the throat.

I think Wagner offers some good diagrams on this on horseback?


Gav

[Jeff D]

Originally Posted by Stan S.

Hey all,

I am somewhat embarassed to admit this but while commonly seeing a reference to a "draw cut" in various literature that describes Middle Eastern martial arts, I fail to understand what exactly it entails. I understand a slash, chop, stab, thrust, etc. but how does one perform a draw cut? Please educate me. Thanks

Hi Stan,

You do a draw cut every time you cut a Tomato. The blade is drawn back as it cuts in.

Jeff

[Stan S.]

Gav: What happens if you miss? Does it mean that subsequent cuts are no longer draw cuts?

Jeff: Your techique may work on tomatos but not on squirming people that try to run away screaming or "draw cut" right back at you

In all seriousness, the only thing that I can picture in my mind is sort of a hack where the blade is not LIFTED from the wound but rather PULLED away from it. However, in a heat of a battle thsi may not not always be possible. Am I missing something?

[fearn]

Jeff's right. It's how you cut a tomato, or use a saw.

The basic point is that your arms move in an arc when you cut with a sword.

If you cut straight down, that's the classic cut. If it's short and sharp, it's a hack. If you put your back into it, you're chopping.

But remember, a cut is a straight line motion, and your arms are moving in arcs.

If you have a curved blade (or even a straight blade angled right), you will be pulling backwards on the blade to slice through your target at the bottom of the arc.

If you think of this in terms of wood, it's the difference between using an axe to cut a branch, or a saw to slice through it.

My 0.0002 cents,

F

[Stan S.]

Originally Posted by fearn

Jeff's right. It's how you cut a tomato, or use a saw.

The basic point is that your arms move in an arc when you cut with a sword.

If you cut straight down, that's the classic cut. If it's short and sharp, it's a hack. If you put your back into it, you're chopping.

But remember, a cut is a straight line motion, and your arms are moving in arcs.

If you have a curved blade (or even a straight blade angled right), you will be pulling backwards on the blade to slice through your target at the bottom of the arc.

If you think of this in terms of wood, it's the difference between using an axe to cut a branch, or a saw to slice through it.

My 0.0002 cents,

F

This makes sence. Also goes well together with a fighting technique of keeping the sword almost vertical and doing what looks like boxing with a sword and a buckler. I guess the emphasis is on striking without slowing down or breaking the rythm. This would require a very sharp blade and well developed shoulder/upper arm muscles for sure...

[Lew]

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...KGE7rk0QjOXIKw

This link should help

Basically the blade is pulled or drawn across the target instead of a hacking/chopping cut.

[Stan S.]

Thanks Lew!

So the basic idea as I inderstand it now is that the blade is drawn THROUGH the target. In other words, if you strike from the top, it is drawn through and comes out on the bottom. Strike from the right, pull through to the left. And so on... This explains enlarged pommels virtually on all bladed weapons from the region (i. e. Disks, ears, birdshead, etc.). Without this feature it would be very difficult to have a good grip needed to "draw" the blade though the flesh of a moving target. I think I got it.

Now I wonder if there is a record of a draw cut being more damaging than a conventional slash. Anyone?

[KuKulzA28]

What is a conventional slash?

A Hack is a short, powerful cut? A chop is a short percussive strike that returns along the same line? A slash is a full bodied sweeping strike? I don't know... All very unscientific ways of describing the strikes. Draw cut is a weird term. I have seen it meaning to cut from the draw, but also to cut by drawing across. The latter I have also seen as a saber-cut.

Essentially here's 2 ways to see a strike.... you can use percussive force to break something. When you have an edge the force is concentrated in a very small area, making the break easier. OR you can slice, where the blade meets the object on a very small portion of its edge, but the contacting edge constantly replaces itself as it "slides" through the material. To make it go deeper some techniques have the back hand or forearm on the back of the blade literally pushing it deeper in.

Now combine the percussion with the slice. Hitting with force but drawing back a.k.a. making it slice while you hack... the result is VERY effective. People who regularly use goloks, parangs, machetes, etc. learn that this is the most efficient way to cut when cutting down vegetation or making a trail. And as you can see most blades suited for this type of cut are sabers - swords with some heft for percussion but curved to be ideal for the slice and to have the edge area.



The best way to figure this out is get off the chair/couch and do it! Get a sword or machete and some tatami mats, saplings, thick bamboo (anything easily cut-able but not too forgiving) and go at it. Be careful since the draw cut or saber cut is seemingly effortless in the way is slides through material. Always know where the blade will end up before you cut through. If you use percussive force to get through it you'll know by the strength you use. If you slice, well, you're only going to slide through so much of it. And keep the blade sharp. A dull blade is only ok at percussive force, the slicing capability is now gone. Remember, use your body, arm, and hand in one fluid motion - for effortless power. Body alignment. Have fun!

[Neil]

No doubt some differences in hack vs. chop vs. draw cut etc. are relative to the shape of the blade, and how it plays out in a real exchange. Relative to the exchange I am talking about the dynamic motions and or distance occurring between combatants.

I like the previous examples of cutting tomatoes or cutting vegetation with a machete too. I really think KuKulzA28 nailed when he said go out and experiment with the sword yourself, safely of coarse. Cutting and even light sparring with wooden, resin, or padded swords can open your eyes to a lot about honest swordsmanship.

[fearn]

As someone who uses a kukri as well as a machete... never mind. You get the point.

The hack vs. chop thing is something I got from a Cold Steel machete video. Hacking (under Lyn Thompson's definition) is what you do when you don't have full arm motion available. Think pounding in a nail. A chop is when you've got full range of motion in your arm and body. Think cutting firewood with an axe. Obviously these are arbitrary terms, just as slash and draw cut are. The major differences are precision (in this version, a hack is more precise) and which muscles you use (a chop should use the full body).

I'd point out that you don't have to have a disk pommel for a draw cut, since a katana can do a draw cut quite well. A good grip of some sort is mandatory, though.

[Rick]

A good way to practice a draw cut is with a standing pool noodle .

If you do it correctly the noodle is severed; if you do it wrong the target just bounces off the blade .

[David]

I believe the term draw-cut is used in two different ways. Firstly as Gav suggests, the first cut or series of cuts one makes upon drawing the sword from the sheath. This seems to most often apply to with the Japanese nihonto. Then i also see the term used to describe an actual type of cut as describes here when cutting, say, a tomato. I believe the correct usage will apply to the context...

[kronckew]

this youtube video of a barong in action shows mostly draw cuts - he shows a few draw cuts on the armpit as well as other targets. (it's also the opposite of a 'push' cut, where the blade is moved away from you during the slice, while the draw cut is done slicing towards you. )

Barong Training

[Stan S.]

Originally Posted by kronckew

this youtube video of a barong in action shows mostly draw cuts - he shows a few draw cuts on the armpit as well as other targets. (it's also the opposite of a 'push' cut, where the blade is moved away from you during the slice, while the draw cut is done slicing towards you. )

Barong Training

Totally badass! This guy can dismember you in sooooooooo many incoceavable ways!

I noticed that at around 1:35 when the instructor starts twirling his blade, his routine looks very similar to the various videos of gatka exercises

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Stan S.

...

I noticed that at around 1:35 when the instructor starts twirling his blade, his routine looks very similar to the various videos of gatka exercises

every martial art seems to have two types of training, a 'dancing' type, ie. 'kata' in japanese arts, and a sparring type. the 'dance' is to repeat fixed forms over and over until they become reflexive muscle memory, that you can do quickly without thought. the combative sparring is to train you to use that muscle memory against an uncooperative opponent, to expect the unexpected.

one of the more dangerous opponents is one that doesn't play by the rules that have been ingrained by all this training, one that uses a move you've not seen before.

gatka is cool; many of the same moves are likely a similar response to a similar threat. (i strill haven't figured out how they do all that twirling sabre work with a tulwar hilt - it'd break MY wrist.)

[Nirghosa]

Originally Posted by kronckew

.
one of the more dangerous opponents is one that doesn't play by the rules that have been ingrained by all this training, one that uses a move you've not seen before.
.)

During my son's early years of training he simply wouldn't engage in repetitive style training with swords/sticks. He was more than willing to spar or play. So I had to find alternative ways to get across skills and concepts and build attributes instead. Eventually he is all the better for it and an incredibly adaptive fighter who cannot be predicted. He rarely looses in competition and the mindset has carried over to other traditional sports.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yep.

You can't beat a bloke who doesn't play by the rules:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyKHe7N_WQk