Morocco dagger!

[Hombre]

I have always wanted to buy a Koummya, dagger from Morocco....
Can this dagger be a good start or shall I continue looking....
Should really appreciate opinions from you guys....

Best,
Stefan

[ariel]

I do not like he blade at all.
The rest seems to have some age, but likely well after Beatles:-)
All in all, it looks souvenir-ish to me.
There are a lot of Koummyas on e-bay.
If you want a decently old , traditional and functional one,- continue looking.
All the best.

[Hombre]

Thank you very much Ariel for your opinions. I really appreciate it.
This is one of the reasons why I really love this forum.

Please, tell me, Ariel, why do you not like this blade.... I really want to learn...

"If you want a decently old , traditional and functional one"

Yes, that is what I want....
Maybe a good beginning should be to try to find books about these kind of daggers before buying.... and of course, read on this forum about them....

Does anyone have a suggestion when it comes to books about these daggers....

Best,
Stefan
Sweden

[mariusgmioc]

Hello Stefan,

Not only the blade, but also the hilt with the kitchish red "gem" is shouting: "kitch for unsuspecting tourists!"

You can start just browsing the web and looking at the photos for "koummya dagger." In the photos, you can examine differences in the quality of materials and mostly workmanship.

Better yet, just have a look at the very educative article right on this forum:

www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/koummya/index.html

[corrado26]

I think, that this was an older koummya because the scabbard is looking good. But the old hilt was obviously missing and the original blade broken. or rusty So they added a frankly said cruel new hilt and a bad blade. Just good for the dustbin
corrado26

[Hombre]

Thank you all!

I will continue looking!

Best,
Stefan

[motan]

Hi Stefan,
Unfortunately, I have to agree with Ariel and mariusgmioc. This is a tourist piece. You can read a very recent thread over koummya that I started about 10 days ago and many others have contributed knowledge, sources and some very good examples.

[shayde78]

I am by NO means an expert (novice is more accurate). Still, here are my two cents

I agree the scabbard seems of better quality that the rest. I think when Ariel indicates an issue with the blade, the issue is it appears to be pretty two-dimensional. There doesn't seem to be much of a clear bevel, and the cross section seems consistent with thin bar stock/sheet steel. Rather than being forged, it was probably ground down to shape. The hilt seems overdone with the nail heads and the 'gem'. There might be some components of the hilt with some age, but I suspect the nails and gem are much more recent embellishments. Take a look at the second set of pictures here, for some guidance on exactly this topic: http://vikingsword.com/ethsword/guide.html

As to your original question of "is this dagger a good start", that is up to you. If the price is right, and you have an idea of what you're actually getting, this could be a good start, and will give you a sense of what to look for in future items you might like to pick up.

Good luck!

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by shayde78

I am by NO means an expert (novice is more accurate). Still, here are my two cents

I agree the scabbard seems of better quality that the rest. I think when Ariel indicates an issue with the blade, the issue is it appears to be pretty two-dimensional. There doesn't seem to be much of a clear bevel, and the cross section seems consistent with thin bar stock/sheet steel. Rather than being forged, it was probably ground down to shape. The hilt seems overdone with the nail heads and the 'gem'. There might be some components of the hilt with some age, but I suspect the nails and gem are much more recent embellishments. Take a look at the second set of pictures here, for some guidance on exactly this topic: http://vikingsword.com/ethsword/guide.html

As to your original question of "is this dagger a good start", that is up to you. If the price is right, and you have an idea of what you're actually getting, this could be a good start, and will give you a sense of what to look for in future items you might like to pick up.

Good luck!

Shayde, that is beautifully explained, which is excellent in helping in understanding the dynamics which lead to the proper evaluation of this dagger. Although not of course the assessment Hombre had likely hoped for, it is truly helpful to have these insights, which is most informative for us all.

It is often very difficult to identify many weapons forms and their variants, and helps a great deal when such details considered are explained.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Please see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22848 which is the forum site Motan is referring to... Your pictures show a dagger made with a hot needle in tailoring terms !! ... thus you will be better off waiting to see a better one ... with more skill in the making.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[rickystl]

While not in my area of collecting, I do own one Koummya. And I thought I would post it here on this Thread for opinions. The Links posted above were most helpful. So here are a bunch of pics. Overall, this appears to be a typical, well made Koummya that was carried in general use. The brass cover on the scabbard and handle are fairly heavy. The blade seems to be of good quality with good cutting edges, but a bit dull from age. There is a smaller amount of engraving on the back side versus the front. Scabbard slightly bent at the tip. Scabbard and handle need a bit of cleaning which I will attend to. Of course the colored shoulder rope was added by myself. But the dagger does appear to have been carried in use. As far as age, based on what I've read, I'm guessing early 20th Century. Does that appear to be correct? Thanks for any comments.

Rick

[rickystl]

MORE PICS.............

[rickystl]

LAST TWO.........

[Bob A]

Regarding the first koumaya, it appears to be quite crude in all respects. The scabbard, while being perhaps the most attractive part of the ensemble, I would guess from the attachment of the rings to be no earlier than mid-twentieth century.

The second has a far nicer blade than the earlier example. I have no clue regarding the stamping on the blade. The scabbard and hilt are crudely soldered, and not particularly well-ornamented. I would guess, again, that it is earlier than the first example, and could well be a weapon carried by a local, rather than a tourist item. The wear from the rings would point to its being carried suspended. Early 20th century seems reasonable to me.

That said, please do not mistake me for any sort of expert.

[motan]

Hi rickystl,
Also not my area of collection, but I bought one recently and it was discussed on the forum (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22848) together with the subject of koummyas in general. I recommend you to read it because members of the forum have contributed examples and sources.

As for your koummya, it cerntainly looks like an authentic ethnographic item that has been used by its owner: the holes for the rings, the general wear of the surface and the signs of repeted re-sharpening of the blade. The type, in terms of general design is common and old-in fact, it is the same as the one I posted in the thread above.
The shape and quality of blade look good but are hard to judge due to grinding. The sign on the blade usually means imported blade (or trying to look like one). Blades have been imported from all over Europe (Italy, France, England, Germany and Spain), but I would guess this is a Spanish blade. I think that early 20th c. as Bob said is a good estimate, but it could be +\- 20 years.
All good, but this is not a dagger for the rich. In "better" ones, the whole front is plated with silver (or even made of solid silver), while in yours, onle small part appear to have be covered with silver.
In summary, old and genuine koummya, but also simple and with lots of wear.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by rickystl

And I thought I would post it here on this Thread for opinions. .... As far as age, based on what I've read, I'm guessing early 20th Century. Does that appear to be correct?

Hello Rick,

I am really no expert regarding this sort of daggers but I see a nice, authentic and "tribal" used dagger with a lot of wear and old repairs, the bend tip of the scabbard I've seen before by old and used pieces. Like Motan said, not a rich mans example but truly a collectible ethnographic dagger with interesting blade. Sorry Stefan, but I think that this one would be a better start to collect koumayas. A better piece with silver will cost more, even today!

Regards,
Detlef

[Hombre]

Thank you all for your opinions.... I really appreciate it and that is why a forum like this is so very valuable....
Well, I am very glad that I asked about this Koummya and from that question I think I have learned a lot by just reading the answers and read the other threads of these kind of daggers.
One day I will have at least one Koummya but I am in no hurry....
Meanwhile I collect what I know best and that is old Winchester leverguns and Colt SAA revolvers....

Best,
Stefan
Sweden

[rickystl]

"In summary, old and genuine koummya, but also simple and with lots of wear."


Thank you ALL for your comments and Links. Amazing what you can learn on this Forum. I'm surprised the blade is in as good condition as it is. As mentioned, the dagger does not look abused, just well used in it's daily affairs. LOL

Thanks again for the help. Much appreciated.

Rick

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by rickystl

MORE PICS.............

I think the bust / head on the blade is of the VIP below:

Mohammed V (10 August 1909 – 26 February 1961) (Arabic: محمد الخامس‎‎) was Sultan of Morocco from 1927 to 1953, exiled from 1953 to 1955, where he was again recognized as Sultan upon his return, and King from 1957 to 1961. His full name was Sidi Mohammed ben Yusef, or Son of (Sultan) Yusef, upon whose death he succeeded to the throne. He was a member of the Alaouite Dynasty.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.