Another 3 old African spears ...not certain as to origins

katana · 13th July 2009, 11:46 PM

Added another three spears for my 'picket fence' display .....well when and if I get permission from the 'other half'

All nicely balanced throwing spears which have had a lot of use .... the 'wear marks' on the shaft match the 'balance point'

Although they are socketted, two are different to any other similar type I have owned. The sockets are more 'open' with a groove that accommodates the shaft. A hand forged nail helps keep them secure. Does this design help in ID'ing the spears origins.

All information, comments gratefully received

Thank you

Regards David

colin henshaw · 14th July 2009, 06:39 AM

Hi David

Nice old spears. I can't say from where exactly, but that stepped or "ogee" section blade often means from Zimbabwe (Mashona) or thereabouts, as does the twist of iron to the butt. The concept of a nail through the socket is sometimes seen in spears from Central Africa.

Usually socketed blades (as opposed to tanged) are from north of the Zambezi, so perhaps they are from the Zambia/Congo region...

Regards
Colin

katana · 14th July 2009, 08:33 PM

Hi Colin,
thank you very much for your informative input

Now I have a direction to 'aim' further research.

All the best
David

Wodimi · 16th July 2009, 09:48 PM

Hello David,
the work of all three spears looks a little bit crude. The Haussa spears from Nigeria have great similarities. Zimbabwe I think can't be, because all three spear points are fixed with sockets/tubes which goes over the shaft. Zimbabwe and all southern spears have this iron tang, which goes into the shaft. The iron twist you found also on Hausa spears.
Best regards
Wolf from
www.spearcollector.com

katana · 17th July 2009, 12:41 AM

Danke Wolf

,
agreed the forging is a little rough......but the balance on these spears is excellent. I suspect the smaller 'headed' spear is for hunting / fishing. The large blade possibly for large game/war. I suppose that as these are thrown... the spearhead just needs to be functional and not refined. They (the spears) definately seem to have some age.

Respekt David

colin henshaw · 30th July 2009, 11:34 AM

Hi David

To let you know, I had a visit to the Powell-Cotton Museum in Birchington yesterday, and they have a spear very similar to these (hole in socket, barbed head, bamboo shaft & coil to butt), described as being from Abyssinia...

Regards

katana · 30th July 2009, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

Hi David

To let you know, I had a visit to the Powell-Cotton Museum in Birchington yesterday, and they have a spear very similar to these (hole in socket, barbed head, bamboo shaft & coil to butt), described as being from Abyssinia...

Regards

Outstanding Colin,
thank you very much. Abyssinia makes perfect sense. The seller had also acquired a Massai broad bladed spear (lion) from the same source (an elderly gentleman whom had been to Africa early 1900's) So geographically speaking they are 'bang next door'. Thank you for remembering me. Unless I find a 'made in ....' label on any of these spears.....Abyssenia it is

Best
David

Jim McDougall · 31st July 2009, 06:58 AM

Hey David,
Great spears, but pulleeze tell me the picket fence thing is just a figure of speech!

I can never get the Scottish basket hilt blades that were discovered welded into a picket fence in England, all taken from captured weapons at the Culloden debacle, out of my mind whenever I hear that term. I've never looked at a pocket fence the same.
Looking forward to more on the grouping.

All the best,
Jim

tribalarms · 3rd August 2009, 05:05 PM

I believe Colin is right.

I would like to add I believe it's southern Ethiopia. I have seen very similar hunting spears there, but the north differs. It would also make sense with the other spear that came with it.

The metal binding on the spears is still found today on pilgrims staffs in Ethiopia.

katana · 3rd August 2009, 09:33 PM

Hey Jim

,
a picket fence made of basket hilted blades

...indeed criminal , what a waste. Obviously done as a political 'statement'. As to my 'picket fence', a line of spears along a wall ......unfortunately unlikely to happen....the 'other half' is not as keen as I ....can't understand it myself

Hi Tribalarms,
thank you for further confirming these spears are from Southern Sudan (part of old Abyssinia)

Kind Regards David

13th July 2009, 11:46 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Another 3 old African spears ...not certain as to origins Added another three spears for my 'picket fence' display .....well when and if I get permission from the 'other half' All nicely balanced throwing spears which have had a lot of use .... the 'wear marks' on the shaft match the 'balance point' Although they are socketted, two are different to any other similar type I have owned. The sockets are more 'open' with a groove that accommodates the shaft. A hand forged nail helps keep them secure. Does this design help in ID'ing the spears origins. All information, comments gratefully received Thank you Regards David Attached Images

14th July 2009, 06:39 AM	#2
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Hi David Nice old spears. I can't say from where exactly, but that stepped or "ogee" section blade often means from Zimbabwe (Mashona) or thereabouts, as does the twist of iron to the butt. The concept of a nail through the socket is sometimes seen in spears from Central Africa. Usually socketed blades (as opposed to tanged) are from north of the Zambezi, so perhaps they are from the Zambia/Congo region... Regards Colin

14th July 2009, 08:33 PM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Colin, thank you very much for your informative input Now I have a direction to 'aim' further research. All the best David

16th July 2009, 09:48 PM	#4
Wodimi Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 75	Hello David, the work of all three spears looks a little bit crude. The Haussa spears from Nigeria have great similarities. Zimbabwe I think can't be, because all three spear points are fixed with sockets/tubes which goes over the shaft. Zimbabwe and all southern spears have this iron tang, which goes into the shaft. The iron twist you found also on Hausa spears. Best regards Wolf from www.spearcollector.com

17th July 2009, 12:41 AM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Danke Wolf , agreed the forging is a little rough......but the balance on these spears is excellent. I suspect the smaller 'headed' spear is for hunting / fishing. The large blade possibly for large game/war. I suppose that as these are thrown... the spearhead just needs to be functional and not refined. They (the spears) definately seem to have some age. Respekt David

30th July 2009, 11:34 AM	#6
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Hi David To let you know, I had a visit to the Powell-Cotton Museum in Birchington yesterday, and they have a spear very similar to these (hole in socket, barbed head, bamboo shaft & coil to butt), described as being from Abyssinia... Regards

31st July 2009, 06:58 AM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,952	Hey David, Great spears, but pulleeze tell me the picket fence thing is just a figure of speech! I can never get the Scottish basket hilt blades that were discovered welded into a picket fence in England, all taken from captured weapons at the Culloden debacle, out of my mind whenever I hear that term. I've never looked at a pocket fence the same. Looking forward to more on the grouping. All the best, Jim

3rd August 2009, 05:05 PM	#9
tribalarms Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 26	I believe Colin is right. I would like to add I believe it's southern Ethiopia. I have seen very similar hunting spears there, but the north differs. It would also make sense with the other spear that came with it. The metal binding on the spears is still found today on pilgrims staffs in Ethiopia.

3rd August 2009, 09:33 PM	#10
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hey Jim , a picket fence made of basket hilted blades ...indeed criminal , what a waste. Obviously done as a political 'statement'. As to my 'picket fence', a line of spears along a wall ......unfortunately unlikely to happen....the 'other half' is not as keen as I ....can't understand it myself Hi Tribalarms, thank you for further confirming these spears are from Southern Sudan (part of old Abyssinia) Kind Regards David