Leather bandolier for matchlock gun

eftihis · 7th March 2021, 02:41 PM

This was advertised as a 17th c european matchlock bandolier. I put it on discussion on teh european forum, but it was suggested that there is a strong possibility to be a non-european item, from a culture that was using matchlocks untill recently. Anyone recognise the style?

Ren Ren · 7th March 2021, 03:02 PM

What a fascinating topic! I'll watch it with pleasure.
I will assume with caution that this item was made in the south of the Arabian Peninsula.

kahnjar1 · 8th March 2021, 05:35 AM

Hi Eftihis,
Not a firm ID but wool stoppers were used in bandoliers from Afghanistan. One of your pics appears to show a wool stopper.
Hopefully Rickystl will come in on this as I know he has several bandoliers of different origins.
Stu

eftihis · 8th March 2021, 04:41 PM

A similar set, was sold some years ago from Italy with the following description: A Musketeer's bandoleer dating: 17th Century provenance: Europe Leather belt with brass buckle; provided with a leather purse and eleven wooden flasks for powder doses, held together with leather straps. Small defects and damages. dimensions: length circa 97 cm.

Kubur · 8th March 2021, 05:23 PM

Stu is 100% right
and it's not the first time that I see an Afghan item listed as medieval or European renaissance.
Please, look at mine.

mahratt · 8th March 2021, 05:30 PM

I agree with the participants who wrote that this belt is from Afghanistan.

eftihis · 8th March 2021, 05:47 PM

Hi Kubur, regarding yours, i have to contribute the following! However, the style of the containers on teh belt we discuss is quite different!

kahnjar1 · 8th March 2021, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eftihis

Hi Kubur, regarding yours, i have to contribute the following! However, the style of the containers on teh belt we discuss is quite different!

I agree that the style of the holders in Kubur's belt are different, however don't disregard that Afghanistan was (and still is) a Tribal land and that the bandoliers were hand made most likely by their original owners, so difference would be expected.
Stu

rickystl · 8th March 2021, 08:41 PM

Hello ALL

I think these belts are really interesting. Containers to carry pre-measured powder charges. With the lead balls and patches kept in a separate pouch.

To my view, the OP is definitely NOT European. Not really sure of it's origin.
And Post #4 looks very similar in design. Both being designed to carry the chargers in a downward position with the wool plugs positioned in the tips.

Post #5 and 7 shows chargers designed to be carried with their pour spouts in the upward position. Likely also with a similar wool type plugs.

Kuber's belt is definitely Afghan, with it's traditional open metal work on the pouches.

These could be used for either matchlocks, flintlocks, or percussion guns since they are only required to carry powder.

The OP's belt is not OP's belt is not Omani. They are designed different. Could still also be Afghan. Don't know. I've seen that particular tiny punch mark design on leather from this Region before. But can't recall. I don't have anything similar.

Congrats on a nice find. I'll see if I can locate where that punch marks are in my collection.

Rick

kino · 13th March 2021, 05:38 PM

Here’s one similar to post #7. The plugs look to be rolled cotton fabric, some have the leather lanyards still attached.

rickystl · 14th March 2021, 06:56 PM

Here is another one. Based on other similar styles, some believe this to be of Turkish origin. I honestly don't know. But it's function is the same as others above. It must have taken a long time to make these by hand.

Rick

Saracen · 14th March 2021, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

Here is another one. Based on other similar styles, some believe this to be of Turkish origin. I honestly don't know. But it's function is the same as others above. It must have taken a long time to make these by hand.

Rick

Design reminiscent of the styling of the scabbard Dharia dagger

Kubur · 14th March 2021, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saracen

Design reminiscent of the styling of the scabbard Dharia dagger

NO, it has nothing to do with the bandolier posted.
Tapestry nails were used from Morocco to India.
I suggest that you read books and visit some museums, instead of collecting pictures on Google.

Saracen · 14th March 2021, 11:51 PM

You are late with advice, mahratt was the first, and literally.
But you're right: there are never many books.
There many of confidence that you have already read everything.

7th March 2021, 02:41 PM	#1
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 507	Leather bandolier for matchlock gun This was advertised as a 17th c european matchlock bandolier. I put it on discussion on teh european forum, but it was suggested that there is a strong possibility to be a non-european item, from a culture that was using matchlocks untill recently. Anyone recognise the style? Attached Images

13th March 2021, 05:38 PM	#10
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	Here’s one similar to post #7. The plugs look to be rolled cotton fabric, some have the leather lanyards still attached. Attached Images

14th March 2021, 06:56 PM	#11
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Here is another one. Based on other similar styles, some believe this to be of Turkish origin. I honestly don't know. But it's function is the same as others above. It must have taken a long time to make these by hand. Rick Attached Images

7th March 2021, 03:02 PM	#2
Ren Ren Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Russia, Moscow Posts: 371	What a fascinating topic! I'll watch it with pleasure. I will assume with caution that this item was made in the south of the Arabian Peninsula.

8th March 2021, 05:35 AM	#3
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,739	Hi Eftihis, Not a firm ID but wool stoppers were used in bandoliers from Afghanistan. One of your pics appears to show a wool stopper. Hopefully Rickystl will come in on this as I know he has several bandoliers of different origins. Stu

8th March 2021, 04:41 PM	#4
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 507	A similar set, was sold some years ago from Italy with the following description: A Musketeer's bandoleer dating: 17th Century provenance: Europe Leather belt with brass buckle; provided with a leather purse and eleven wooden flasks for powder doses, held together with leather straps. Small defects and damages. dimensions: length circa 97 cm. Attached Images

8th March 2021, 05:23 PM	#5
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Stu is 100% right and it's not the first time that I see an Afghan item listed as medieval or European renaissance. Please, look at mine. Attached Images

8th March 2021, 05:30 PM	#6
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	I agree with the participants who wrote that this belt is from Afghanistan.

8th March 2021, 05:47 PM	#7
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 507	Hi Kubur, regarding yours, i have to contribute the following! However, the style of the containers on teh belt we discuss is quite different! Attached Images

8th March 2021, 08:41 PM	#9
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hello ALL I think these belts are really interesting. Containers to carry pre-measured powder charges. With the lead balls and patches kept in a separate pouch. To my view, the OP is definitely NOT European. Not really sure of it's origin. And Post #4 looks very similar in design. Both being designed to carry the chargers in a downward position with the wool plugs positioned in the tips. Post #5 and 7 shows chargers designed to be carried with their pour spouts in the upward position. Likely also with a similar wool type plugs. Kuber's belt is definitely Afghan, with it's traditional open metal work on the pouches. These could be used for either matchlocks, flintlocks, or percussion guns since they are only required to carry powder. The OP's belt is not OP's belt is not Omani. They are designed different. Could still also be Afghan. Don't know. I've seen that particular tiny punch mark design on leather from this Region before. But can't recall. I don't have anything similar. Congrats on a nice find. I'll see if I can locate where that punch marks are in my collection. Rick

14th March 2021, 11:51 PM	#14
Saracen Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 147	You are late with advice, mahratt was the first, and literally. But you're right: there are never many books. There many of confidence that you have already read everything.