From where is this powder flask?

[Sajen]

Here is a nice and interesting powder flask and I would like to know from where this piece coming. It's 9 1/2" long, 3 1/2" broad and 2 3/4" high. The poring tube is from brass, the corpus is wood with a lacquer covering. All comments are very welcome, thank you in advance.

[kahnjar1]

Your flask is from Oman.
Stu

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Your flask is from Oman.
Stu

Thank you very much Stu!

Regards,
Detlef

[kahnjar1]

I should also have added that the cap is missing from yours, but apart from that it looks GREAT. I am in awe of this one, as the one I have is of much more recent manufacture, and is not as refined in the finish.....pic herewith.
Stu

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

I should also have added that the cap is missing from yours, but apart from that it looks GREAT. I am in awe of this one, as the one I have is of much more recent manufacture, and is not as refined in the finish.....pic herewith.
Stu

Hello Stu,

thank you again, yes, yours is indeed very similar. That the cap is missing was clear.

Regards,
Detlef

[rickystl]

Hi Sajen.
While your flask has similarities with the Turkish/Ottoman and Moroccan beehive flasks, I agree with Stu this is more likely from Oman. It has that dark, extra high quality you see on many Omani accessories. Beautiful looking flask.
Rick.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Sajen.
While your flask has similarities with the Turkish/Ottoman and Moroccan beehive flasks, I agree with Stu this is more likely from Oman. It has that dark, extra high quality you see on many Omani accessories. Beautiful looking flask.
Rick.

Hi Rick,

thank you very much!

Regards,
Detlef

[Oriental-Arms]

Hi Stuart

Are you sure it is Oman? Any references ? I always thought these are Moroccan

[Oriental-Arms]

Two more similar ones

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Oriental-Arms

Hi Stuart

Are you sure it is Oman? Any references ? I always thought these are Moroccan

Hi ARTZI,
Yes..... Identified as such in Elgood's Arms and Armour of Arabia, and also by Ibrahiim in his many posts to the Forum. Also shown here http://www.omanisilver.com/ under heading Matchlock Guns.
Stu

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Hi ARTZI,
Yes..... Identified as such in Elgood's Arms and Armour of Arabia, and also by Ibrahiim in his many posts to the Forum. Also shown here http://www.omanisilver.com/ under heading Matchlock Guns.
Stu

I agree ... This is the Omani style as outlined in your reference. The reference, however, is a compilation based on the old omanisilver.com site to whom I wrote a year ago outlining the considerable mistakes at their Omani Khanjar section...which they have not changed but show such Khanjars made for and by the flower tribal artesans of what was Yemen but has been absorbed by Saudia Arabia since about 1923...Several of their exhibits are illustrated and described as having a floral stamp on the reverse. No Omani khanjars carry floral stamps but the flower tribal khanjars of what was part of Yemen do !!

I find nothing much wrong with the section at your reference. (I note they doubt as to the authenticity of the Moroccan attribution by Stone.) In dissecting their information I agree that these wooden powder flasks appear to be Omani although they may have been designed from the leather European version of old.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

I agree ... This is the Omani style as outlined in your reference. The reference, however, is a compilation based on the old omanisilver.com site to whom I wrote a year ago outlining the considerable mistakes at their Omani Khanjar section...which they have not changed but show such Khanjars made for and by the flower tribal artesans of what was Yemen but has been absorbed by Saudia Arabia since about 1923...Several of their exhibits are illustrated and described as having a floral stamp on the reverse. No Omani khanjars carry floral stamps but the flower tribal khanjars of what was part of Yemen do !!

I find nothing much wrong with the section at your reference. (I note they doubt as to the authenticity of the Moroccan attribution by Stone.) In dissecting their information I agree that these wooden powder flasks appear to be Omani although they may have been designed from the leather European version of old.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Hi Ibrahiim, Yes I have seen reference somewhere to European leather flasks, possibly being a source of inspiration for the design of these Omani flasks, but have always understood that these PARTICULAR wooden flasks are Omani.
Stu

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

oops double entry...

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Hi Ibrahiim, Yes I have seen reference somewhere to European leather flasks, possibly being a source of inspiration for the design of these Omani flasks, but have always understood that these PARTICULAR wooden flasks are Omani.
Stu

Salaams Khanjar 1 ... Readers may need to be aware of the conflicting information (The subject of conflicting or even blatant errors by well known authors is well known and there are many who are responsible for massively wrong footing researchers down the ages including Stone and even Burton and I feel this error-making is probably the subject of a separate study in its own right. To the list of some famous authors I add Omanisilver.com content which as I have illustrated (and they have ignored)...which is full of errors at a senior aspect of their Omani work..Omani Khanjars. To address the specific errors on their Omani Khanjar situation researchers may see my work on the Habaabi (of Abha) Khanjar at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=futtila

Back to the Powder Flask ~I have illustrated this style of Powder Flask at many threads here on Forum including http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=omani+barrels however, that part of the discussion to one side I think it appropriate to discuss how the Omani tribesmen used these flasks since on the abu futtilla there is a requirement to use two different types of gunpowder...and I have alluded to the use of the poisonous plant...Sodoms apple at...http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=sodoms+apple to show the local production of gunpowder ...combined with Sulphur mined locally ...and the same reference shows the project powder flask (3 examples) from Oman and the odd brass cartridge style containers for pre-loaded charges.

There are three methods of loading gunpowder into the weapon...The first is by filling brass/other material cartridges and using that as the main charge...see above ...prepared beforehand and containing the wodd of cloth as a stopper. Then there are two powder containers...This project powder flask and the second type in silver and probably designed from the Ottoman style and in Oman traditionally worn about the neck on a leather thong so that it can be quickly pushed behind the neck as the requirement to run headlong through the bushes in pursuit of the target. This flask contained primer quality finer powder for the pan. Main charge powder would be carried either in the pre-organised brass /other material cartridges or in a hefty wooden powder flask as at #1.


Note I add an early references at forum for interest http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=omani+barrels

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[kahnjar1]

We are digressing from the original thread a little bit but since you have described the three ways of loading muzzle loaders, I thought it of interest to post pics of the three.
One is the flask at the subject of this thread.
Then we have the Talahiq primer flask, worn as you say around the neck and attached by a silver chain and leather strap.
Also the pre measured charges of powder contained in wooden/bamboo tubes, and held in a bandolier/belt.
Pics of the three attached below.
Stu

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

We are digressing from the original thread a little bit but since you have described the three ways of loading muzzle loaders, I thought it of interest to post pics of the three.
One is the flask at the subject of this thread.
Then we have the Talahiq primer flask, worn as you say around the neck and attached by a silver chain and leather strap.
Also the pre measured charges of powder contained in wooden/bamboo tubes, and held in a bandolier/belt.
Pics of the three attached below.
Stu

Salaams Khanjar 1, and thank you for the illustrations of the 3 methods of loading the abu futtila. See http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=sodoms+apple where two tribal warriors are shown with abu futtila and one has around his neck a Talahiq . On the same thread are three wooden examples of the European style Omani Adopted flasks (Note that the bamboo tubes also appear in brass format in the same thread..)

There is some conjecture in the method of wearing the tubes which your illustration shows with the classic Omani Waist Belt Buckle...adding authenticity to the tube format as an Omani adopted item and from the Ottoman style.(perhaps indicating it was worn on the waist..and thus perhaps the reason why the later Martini ammunition is also on the waist belt...in Oman.

I note how much of an Omani Item the abu futtila actually is...or isn't. The barrel which makes up about 90% of the object is usually either European or Persian but the woodwork is probably acacia (Thorn Tree) common in Oman. Perhaps the only other Omani item may be the wrap round skin which is said to be wolf skin but could be that or something similar...and carries something of a Talismanic effect...as does the moon shape Talahiq not only in shape but using silver as the material with hints/highlights of gold (or brass it is the same effect) There is a strong thought that the Talahiq was largely Talismanic and not actually used as a powder flask but worn only as protection. To some extent that is reflected in the fact that early Talahiq had iron springs whilst later items were of silver... It is something worth examining perhaps at a later date...


Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi