Minangkabau(?) keris

ariel · 28th July 2016, 01:44 AM

My main interest is Islamic bladed weapons: from Caucasus and the Ottomans to India. Because I know next to nothing about keris, I humbly beg your forbearance and forgiveness: you are dealing with a newbie, who is far too old to learn new tricks.

Here is a keris that wandered into my home one night and asked for shelter.

I think it is Sumatra, Minangkabau ( if you say it is from Palembang I will not get insulted, too). The handle is made IMHO from a real fossilized elephant molar, not modern plastic fake. It is very heavy, and has a couple of old delaminations that were glued back. All solid now. The blade is straight and used to be covered in heavy black rust and grime. A lot of WD-40 and a touch of paper towels and the finest steel wool revealed that there was a real metal underneath:-) Can't see any pamor and don't want to employ sandpaper etc. I will leave that to the next owner.
The scabbard is covered in silver , with some losses close to the handle, not much, but still... Silver is heavily patinated. Again, I have a supremely gentle silver polish paste, but do not want to spoil the effect of aging. The end of the scabbard has a brass(?) fitting.

Questions:
- am I correct re. Minangkabau?
- age
-value ( not monetary, of course): is this one rare and respectable enough to brag about it, to hug it, and kiss it and to call it George?
- Is the straight blade without traces of pamor legit?
- am I correct re. elephant molar?
- selut looks pretty cheap. Does this keris deserve a new one? Any hints where can I find one?

Many thanks for any help.

Ariel

ariel · 28th July 2016, 01:46 AM

#2

Rick · 28th July 2016, 02:01 AM

Ariel, take a shot of the entire keris oriented point up with the greneng to the viewer's right.
Would be very helpful.

I don't get a very good feeling from the fossil molar hilt.
The blade is everything pretty much anyway.

What's with that hole at the end of the gonjo in your top view?

Yeah, looking at the top and edge of the gonjo; it seems made to take a decorative covering.

The distressing of the fittings looks like the work of father time.

kai · 28th July 2016, 03:06 AM

Hello Ariel,

This is a nice, old/antique Bangkinang blade; what's its size - probably of intermediate size usually called anak alang? These got traded widely across Sumatra and don't really help to narrow down origin. As Rick suggests, it's possible that it once had a sheet of silver covering the exposed part of the gonjo.

Scabbard with silver sheet seems to be antique as well; foot as well as selut are recent replacements. Replacing the selut with a simple one made from silver will certainly benefit the ensemble - not that easy to obtain a fitting example though. The crosspiece is interesting but difficult to place - some more close-ups from both sides and the top may help...

Fossil molar is a really difficult material to work with and many/most examples are recent; quite difficult to establish age with these. What does the base and the hole for the pesi/tang look like without the selut? If it happens to be an old example, one might suggest it pointing to the Jambi area.

BTW, quite some heavy rust left at the base of the blade - this needs a thorough mechanical cleaning to avoid further loss. Bangkinang blades are laminated - the pamor is usually of very low contrast though and does not need any etching.

Regards,
Kai

Marcokeris · 28th July 2016, 04:52 PM

nice keris

.... i post another elephant molar hilt

Gustav · 28th July 2016, 05:45 PM

Yes, a Minang Keris. Greneng and whole blade base is typically Minang.

Hilt doesn't look so bad. The light colour is a good sign, because the newer ones are almost always chemically treated to enhance the colours.

Would let it as it is, except the blade rust. It is a honest, good specimen of its kind. Nice to have such more elaborated crosspiece of sheath.

Buntut (the end peace of sheath stem) being made from different material (I mean also metal of different colours as in this case) is not unusual with this type, actually it is quite often seen, also Pendokok corresponding with Buntut.

It is a pure speculation, yet I suppose the sleeve that once covered the back of Gonjo was the same colour as Pendokok. Never have seen an old silver one.

Sajen · 28th July 2016, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

Yes, a Minang Keris. Greneng and whole blade base is typically Minang.

Hilt doesn't look so bad. The light colour is a good sign, because the newer ones are almost always chemically treated to enhance the colours.

Would let it as it is, except the blade rust. It is a honest, good specimen of its kind. Nice to have such more elaborated crosspiece of sheath.

Buntut (the end peace of sheath stem) being made from different material (I mean also metal of different colours as in this case) is not unusual with this type, actually it is quite often seen, also Pendokok corresponding with Buntut.

It is a pure speculation, yet I suppose the sleeve that once covered the back of Gonjo was the same colour as Pendokok. Never have seen an old silver one.

Agree in all points with Gustav, I really don't think that buntut and pendokok are recent additions and frankly wouldn't be very surprised when it will be gold of unknown quality, I would let test it and again frankly said I would think about to let restore the pendokok when it is indeed gold. It is maybe very thin (because expensive) gold and I think that this keris was once a dress piece. I am as well every time dubiously when I see elephant molar hilts but have to agree with Gustav by the same reasons.
And yes, please care the blade!

Regards,
Detlef

28th July 2016, 01:44 AM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Minangkabau(?) keris My main interest is Islamic bladed weapons: from Caucasus and the Ottomans to India. Because I know next to nothing about keris, I humbly beg your forbearance and forgiveness: you are dealing with a newbie, who is far too old to learn new tricks. Here is a keris that wandered into my home one night and asked for shelter. I think it is Sumatra, Minangkabau ( if you say it is from Palembang I will not get insulted, too). The handle is made IMHO from a real fossilized elephant molar, not modern plastic fake. It is very heavy, and has a couple of old delaminations that were glued back. All solid now. The blade is straight and used to be covered in heavy black rust and grime. A lot of WD-40 and a touch of paper towels and the finest steel wool revealed that there was a real metal underneath:-) Can't see any pamor and don't want to employ sandpaper etc. I will leave that to the next owner. The scabbard is covered in silver , with some losses close to the handle, not much, but still... Silver is heavily patinated. Again, I have a supremely gentle silver polish paste, but do not want to spoil the effect of aging. The end of the scabbard has a brass(?) fitting. Questions: - am I correct re. Minangkabau? - age -value ( not monetary, of course): is this one rare and respectable enough to brag about it, to hug it, and kiss it and to call it George? - Is the straight blade without traces of pamor legit? - am I correct re. elephant molar? - selut looks pretty cheap. Does this keris deserve a new one? Any hints where can I find one? Many thanks for any help. Ariel Attached Images

28th July 2016, 02:01 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Ariel, take a shot of the entire keris oriented point up with the greneng to the viewer's right. Would be very helpful. I don't get a very good feeling from the fossil molar hilt. The blade is everything pretty much anyway. What's with that hole at the end of the gonjo in your top view? Yeah, looking at the top and edge of the gonjo; it seems made to take a decorative covering. The distressing of the fittings looks like the work of father time. Last edited by Rick; 28th July 2016 at 02:20 AM.

28th July 2016, 04:52 PM	#5
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	nice keris .... i post another elephant molar hilt Attached Images

28th July 2016, 05:45 PM	#6
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,249	Yes, a Minang Keris. Greneng and whole blade base is typically Minang. Hilt doesn't look so bad. The light colour is a good sign, because the newer ones are almost always chemically treated to enhance the colours. Would let it as it is, except the blade rust. It is a honest, good specimen of its kind. Nice to have such more elaborated crosspiece of sheath. Buntut (the end peace of sheath stem) being made from different material (I mean also metal of different colours as in this case) is not unusual with this type, actually it is quite often seen, also Pendokok corresponding with Buntut. It is a pure speculation, yet I suppose the sleeve that once covered the back of Gonjo was the same colour as Pendokok. Never have seen an old silver one. Last edited by Gustav; 28th July 2016 at 06:06 PM.

28th July 2016, 01:46 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	#2 Attached Images

28th July 2016, 03:06 AM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Ariel, This is a nice, old/antique Bangkinang blade; what's its size - probably of intermediate size usually called anak alang? These got traded widely across Sumatra and don't really help to narrow down origin. As Rick suggests, it's possible that it once had a sheet of silver covering the exposed part of the gonjo. Scabbard with silver sheet seems to be antique as well; foot as well as selut are recent replacements. Replacing the selut with a simple one made from silver will certainly benefit the ensemble - not that easy to obtain a fitting example though. The crosspiece is interesting but difficult to place - some more close-ups from both sides and the top may help... Fossil molar is a really difficult material to work with and many/most examples are recent; quite difficult to establish age with these. What does the base and the hole for the pesi/tang look like without the selut? If it happens to be an old example, one might suggest it pointing to the Jambi area. BTW, quite some heavy rust left at the base of the blade - this needs a thorough mechanical cleaning to avoid further loss. Bangkinang blades are laminated - the pamor is usually of very low contrast though and does not need any etching. Regards, Kai