![]() |
![]() |
#1 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
|
![]()
Recently sold on e-bay.
Presented as " Middle East, Afghanistan, Persia" and " Indo-Persian, Persian" Who knows where in fact they are from? I do:-))) |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,869
|
![]()
On the left like a bichaq, and the right of course Khyber, but both have unusual mounts.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,138
|
![]()
Hmm...gee...errr...Pakistan?
![]() There have been so many conquering hordes pass through Pakistan, they must have left behind knives like these at some time that were then adopted by the locals. Indo-Persian and Khyber knives are found in neighboring countries. Seems like the right part of the world to me. Ian. Last edited by Ian; 2nd February 2017 at 05:33 AM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 936
|
![]()
Ariel, the one on the left is "Turkmen from Syria". See THIS THREAD
The second is Central Asian, could be Afghanistan/Pakistan of course, but looks more Turkmen/Bukharan. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,167
|
![]()
i tend to agree with alex on this set.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 |
EAAF Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Upstate New York, USA
Posts: 909
|
![]()
The top one (brown background) is, I have been led to believe, Kurdish.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 456
|
![]()
There is no stylistic connection with Turkmen work whatsoever in the knife on the left. I saw many of these in Turkish museums while doing graduate research there. They are always labeled the same, Kürt bıçağı (Kurdish Knife.) Some show better workmanship than others, however they are all quite
similar in hilt composition. That said, if Ariel is able to show otherwise, I look forward to reading it. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 936
|
![]()
Oliver, this may not be Turkmen kard in terms of location, but one theory is that this type was made by Turkmen (or possibly other Central Asian) people living in Syria. This is solely an unproven theory and this could be any ethnic group in the region including Kurds. However, these knifes are not well known to be Kurdish (to me
![]() Last edited by ALEX; 2nd February 2017 at 04:12 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
|
![]()
Turkmen.
The one on the left was extensively discussed quite some time ago on a Russian forum http://forum.guns.ru/forummessage/79/1724159-5.html They also discussed Kurdish, Syrian etc. origins , but all was based on "personal gut feelings". For me the most persuasive argument was a book page from a German book, where this construction of the handle was attributed to Northern Afghanistan ( likely Turkmen territory), Teke tribe. See also Alex's reference to identical knives attributed to Turkmenistan by Artzi Yarom and AshokaArts. The "khyber" like knife can be attributed with higher degree of precision: see picture taken from an article by Yu. Botyakov and V. Yanborisov " Turkmeni Weapons" The leftmost 4 images contain a picture of an identical dagger. They belong to the largest Turkmen tribe Teke, concentrating in the south of the countru, on the border with Afghanistan. Please pay attention to the pommel: just a cap. Very reminiscent to the handles on the earliest Ottoman yataghans of Bayazet and Suleiman and later Uzbek royal examples. Equally intriguing, IMHO, is the rightmost image : "eared" pommel. This is a Saryk knife. Boldly assuming that this feature is of ancestral origin ( I am skating on a thin ice here!) , can we tie it to the classical yataghan characteristics? |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|