Gold on Keris

Battara · 18th September 2010, 04:37 AM

A different question: does gold on a keris signify royalty or does this depend on how much gold is on the keris?

Battara · 18th September 2010, 04:48 AM

Here is what I understand is a sultan's Bugis keris that once belonged to Rsword:

Battara · 20th September 2010, 04:07 AM

I know that a lot of gold is royalty, like the keris above, but what about, say, a couple of bands of gold on the scabbard, or not as much gold on the piece?

PenangsangII · 20th September 2010, 05:34 AM

gold dress on keris, esp Malay, no matter how little or small amount, is forbidden to commoners.

BTW, the keris blade in the pic looks very Jawanese to me.

Amuk Murugul · 20th September 2010, 08:14 AM

Hullo everybody,

There are communities where gold on kerises/weapons and indeed, the wearing of gold by males, is expressly forbidden, regardless of status/rank. However, humans being human, some conveniently forget this taboo while others mix the gold into alloys etc. to circumvent this taboo.

Best,

Battara · 20th September 2010, 04:59 PM

Ok so gold is for royalty, regardless of the amount or carat of gold..............

David · 20th September 2010, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Ok so gold is for royalty, regardless of the amount or carat of gold..............

I am not convinced that this has been fully established José.
I believe we might well find both regional and timeline differences in the numerous cultures that exist within the keris bearing world.

Battara · 20th September 2010, 08:46 PM

Ah, good point David.

A. G. Maisey · 21st September 2010, 12:01 AM

This question about gold is a recurring one that has arisen time and time again in discussion about keris. I don't know if it has arisen in this Forum previously, but over the years it often been discussed in other places.

In any discussion of this nature we need to define the period, the society, and the division within society, so you could ask:-

" In the Kartasura Karaton who was permitted to wear a keris adorned with gold?"

Or you could ask:-

"In 19th century Surakarta society, within the community outside the Karaton, could a man wear a keris adorned with gold?"

Or you could ask:-

"In the Kingdom of Badung in 18th century Bali, what were the rules that affected the wearing of gold on a keris?"

You see, its not just keris and who can wear gold. It is every single society, every single Kraton, every single time period, that must be addressed..

You need to define the question, then you can look for an answer.

One size does not fit all.

For example A.H.Hill wrote:-

"The Malacca Code instituted by Sultan Muhammad Shah about 1415 laid down rules about who, for instance, would be allowed to wear a keris with a gold hilt or sheath, and when the tip of the hilt was to be worn pointing inwards as a sign of peace, or outwards as a sign of aggressive intentions. 'Persons attached to the palace are not allowed to wear a keris with a golden handle-----the penalty being confiscation of the weapon'. Much latitude was allowed to the Bendahara and his family, but usually only the Sultan himself might wear a keris completely encased in gold."

However, Javanese tradition has it that after the campaign against Pati, Sultan Agung awarded various gold kinatah adornments to various ranks of officers who took part in the campaign.

Then when we come to the 19th century, in locations across Jawa we had anybody in the general community who had sufficient wealth and the desire to so do, wearing keris that were adorned with gold.

To return to 1415. Note that the Malacca Code only laid down dress rules in this respect for people attached to the palace.

So, the answer to this original question cannot be given as any succinct formula. We need to seek an answer that is defined in terms of place, time, and societal position.

PenangsangII · 21st September 2010, 04:41 AM

I cant agree more Alan, that the question on gold dress keris should be addressed in more specific manners.

Regarding the Malaka Code, since the former glory of the empire and its remnants (Johor Riau) ceased to exist, the code is still very much observed within the Malayan palace sphere, i.e. you dont wear a keris dress in gold when attending a royal function bla bla... Nevertheless, the code was not absorbed into the common law (British based) thus no enforcement whatsoever to those defying the code

Battara · 22nd September 2010, 12:02 AM

This has been great information. I am learning. Thank you very much folks!

Ok, let's try this. I will narrow this to a keris that is south Malay peninsular (Johar?) and 19th century with 2 16k gold bands, one under the wrangka and the other at the bottom of the scabbard. I don't have it but seen it. Selut is gold plated brass and the hilt is jawa demom.

Would this be royal or just a display of wealth? (sorry did not take pictures)

18th September 2010, 04:37 AM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	Gold on Keris A different question: does gold on a keris signify royalty or does this depend on how much gold is on the keris?

18th September 2010, 04:48 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	Here is what I understand is a sultan's Bugis keris that once belonged to Rsword: Attached Images

20th September 2010, 08:14 AM	#5
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 460	Gold accoutrements/embellishments Hullo everybody, There are communities where gold on kerises/weapons and indeed, the wearing of gold by males, is expressly forbidden, regardless of status/rank. However, humans being human, some conveniently forget this taboo while others mix the gold into alloys etc. to circumvent this taboo. Best,

20th September 2010, 04:07 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	I know that a lot of gold is royalty, like the keris above, but what about, say, a couple of bands of gold on the scabbard, or not as much gold on the piece?

20th September 2010, 05:34 AM	#4
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	gold dress on keris, esp Malay, no matter how little or small amount, is forbidden to commoners. BTW, the keris blade in the pic looks very Jawanese to me.

20th September 2010, 04:59 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	Ok so gold is for royalty, regardless of the amount or carat of gold..............

20th September 2010, 08:46 PM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	Ah, good point David.

21st September 2010, 12:01 AM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,877	This question about gold is a recurring one that has arisen time and time again in discussion about keris. I don't know if it has arisen in this Forum previously, but over the years it often been discussed in other places. In any discussion of this nature we need to define the period, the society, and the division within society, so you could ask:- " In the Kartasura Karaton who was permitted to wear a keris adorned with gold?" Or you could ask:- "In 19th century Surakarta society, within the community outside the Karaton, could a man wear a keris adorned with gold?" Or you could ask:- "In the Kingdom of Badung in 18th century Bali, what were the rules that affected the wearing of gold on a keris?" You see, its not just keris and who can wear gold. It is every single society, every single Kraton, every single time period, that must be addressed.. You need to define the question, then you can look for an answer. One size does not fit all. For example A.H.Hill wrote:- "The Malacca Code instituted by Sultan Muhammad Shah about 1415 laid down rules about who, for instance, would be allowed to wear a keris with a gold hilt or sheath, and when the tip of the hilt was to be worn pointing inwards as a sign of peace, or outwards as a sign of aggressive intentions. 'Persons attached to the palace are not allowed to wear a keris with a golden handle-----the penalty being confiscation of the weapon'. Much latitude was allowed to the Bendahara and his family, but usually only the Sultan himself might wear a keris completely encased in gold." However, Javanese tradition has it that after the campaign against Pati, Sultan Agung awarded various gold kinatah adornments to various ranks of officers who took part in the campaign. Then when we come to the 19th century, in locations across Jawa we had anybody in the general community who had sufficient wealth and the desire to so do, wearing keris that were adorned with gold. To return to 1415. Note that the Malacca Code only laid down dress rules in this respect for people attached to the palace. So, the answer to this original question cannot be given as any succinct formula. We need to seek an answer that is defined in terms of place, time, and societal position.

21st September 2010, 04:41 AM	#10
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	I cant agree more Alan, that the question on gold dress keris should be addressed in more specific manners. Regarding the Malaka Code, since the former glory of the empire and its remnants (Johor Riau) ceased to exist, the code is still very much observed within the Malayan palace sphere, i.e. you dont wear a keris dress in gold when attending a royal function bla bla... Nevertheless, the code was not absorbed into the common law (British based) thus no enforcement whatsoever to those defying the code

22nd September 2010, 12:02 AM	#11
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	This has been great information. I am learning. Thank you very much folks! Ok, let's try this. I will narrow this to a keris that is south Malay peninsular (Johar?) and 19th century with 2 16k gold bands, one under the wrangka and the other at the bottom of the scabbard. I don't have it but seen it. Selut is gold plated brass and the hilt is jawa demom. Would this be royal or just a display of wealth? (sorry did not take pictures)