Beautiful Pendray knife as well as the price!!

Mare Rosu · 29th April 2007, 07:07 PM

Mr. Pendray did excellent work on this blade.
Closed item on eBay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...0253&rd=1&rd=1

Emanuel · 29th April 2007, 07:15 PM

A magnificent blade, and I like the lines of the whole thing. The guard flows well with the blade and I like the combination of rib and T-spine. I dislike the fittings though...I think the piece would have been more attractive with a nice wood or ivory scales.

Regards,
Emanuel

Battara · 29th April 2007, 09:20 PM

would you post some pictures, the link is good butr the pictures are gone.

Mare Rosu · 29th April 2007, 09:57 PM

Pendray knife pictures

Mare Rosu · 29th April 2007, 10:08 PM

Please do not drool on your computer!

ariel · 30th April 2007, 03:59 AM

Personally, I think is is garish.

Lew · 30th April 2007, 05:14 AM

The blade is nice but the furniture is complete fantasy as my mother use to say it's Ongepatcheket (Overdecorated, overdone)

Lew

ALEX · 30th April 2007, 08:57 AM

Also do not like these fittings. I've seen the similar, but old, filigree fittings on some old Middle Eastern, Albanian/Balkan daggers, but they never impressed me. Agree with Manolo - Woots looks much better in the "natural" fittings, i.e. bone and leather. Also, for THAT price one can get a fine antique wootz sword (or actually several nice and old swords and daggers). Excuse the comment about the price though, it is just my opinion !!!

ariel · 30th April 2007, 04:56 PM

Glad I am not alone!
The silverwok on this piece is the simplest and the cheapest Caucasian decoration technique. You can see similar examples on e-bay for $19.99 ( stamped blade included

) and the only difference is that the present one is silver. I was told that Georgian mass-producers of these souvenirs employ part-time youngsters ( kind of " flipping hamburgers"-type job) and those start producing commercial wares after 2-3 days of practice. This is fine for a $19.99 trinket, but I would never pay $8,500 for this " Fantasy Sword of Klingon General" !

Tim Simmons · 30th April 2007, 05:33 PM

You are not alone. I thought this was bad enough with pearls and enamel. I have to sing my own praises

. Rather expensive garnets

.

Lew · 30th April 2007, 05:44 PM

That's my big gripe with the custom knife business today they make some nice stuff but they charge prices that are astronomical. I once showed a famous knife smith one of my wootz katars that I paid only $150-200 he said it was nice and if I wanted one made by him it would cost $2,000

So why buy a copy when you can have the real deal for much less

People just get caught up in the hype that's my opinion.

Lew

ariel · 30th April 2007, 06:52 PM

Agree with Lew 100%.
Modern swordmaking is an industry that manufactures toys and home decorations. Modern-made blades will never be used anyway ( are you going to slice sausages with a $8,500 blade?). For all I know, these high-priced Damascus blades may be no better than Taiwanese dinner knives from K-Mart: nobody will ever put them to practical test. And even if they are 10 times better than Ginsu knives, so what? Whose life had depended on the quality of his sword over the past 150 years?
Why would I want to have a blade with no history behind it? Without some romantic story, be it about the owner, the era, the war, the tradition?
Some want to revive lost technological process? More power to them. Some want to master old decorating techniques? Great! But to pretend that the final result has anything in common with the old weapons is like selling a "hand-painted" copy of Van Gogh's oil as a real thing and having a gall to ask twice the price of the original (" I had to work very hard to fake Van Gogh's style!")

Lew · 30th April 2007, 07:37 PM

Ariel

Pendray makes a great knife that's tuff nails and he doesn't charge that much for his work I actually paid very little for an all wootz knife with a 5" blade a few years back. The price sky rockets once the knife falls into one of these purveyor's hands. I have actually over heard them at shows telling other sellers that their prices are to low and to charge more so the big guys don't get under cut so buyer beware

I once traded a damascus camp knife a few months later it showed up on one of these websites where it went for fives times what I paid

go figure

Lew

Mare Rosu · 30th April 2007, 11:30 PM

I also agree on the "garish" as stated by Ariel as well as what Louieblades said. As the blade did not sell also indicates the "Price is not Right".
My comments are on the BLADE not the furniture. I think that Pendray's modern wootz is some of the best around. I am of the opinion that Pendray made just the blade and someone else made the rest.
I did learn something (any day is a good day when I learn anything, and most of my days are very good)

when Ariel stated that it is the cheapest style work. I am always amazed of the collective knowledge of folks on this forum.

ariel · 1st May 2007, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Ariel

Pendray makes a great knife that's tuff nails and he doesn't charge that much for his work I actually paid very little for an all wootz knife with a 5" blade a few years back. The price sky rockets once the knife falls into one of these purveyor's hands. I have actually over heard them at shows telling other sellers that their prices are to low and to charge more so the big guys don't get under cut so buyer beware

I once traded a damascus camp knife a few months later it showed up on one of these websites where it went for fives times what I paid

go figure

Lew

I am sure that Mr. Pendray's blades are technically superb and can cut regular steel like butter. But... who is going to try it for the price? I fully understand that there are 2 kinds of collectors ( many more in reality!): those who admire technical aspects of the blades and those who seek history and romance behind the sword. I am firmly in the latter camp and that's why I am not thrilled by modern blades no matter how beautiful and technically superb they might be. Give me an oldie, coming from a violent place with a fascinating history any time, something that likely saw a battle and bears scars to prove it and I am happy.
But, to each his preferences...
More from Zaza Revishvili:
http://www.balisongcollector.com/galleryZ.html
http://www.knifeshows.com/revishvili/revishvili.html
The best part, of course, he was a professional football player and is on the list of Best Ever Georgian Football Players
http://www.gff.ge/index.php?lang_id=ENG&sec_id=112
This is for our European Forumites: no real American will be impressed by this info anyway. And, just for them: football means soccer

.

Emanuel · 1st May 2007, 03:54 AM

Looks like he's really into garnets and excessive silver filigree

too bad for the blades.

katana · 2nd May 2007, 03:06 PM

It appears that the majority are in agreement....and I have to say IMHO they are right. Fantastic blade...beautiful curves

but the furniture

OTT and too 'fancy'.......not my cup of tea ...at all....especially at that price

You cannot beat the historical .....and dare I say... the romancism of old arms

Newly made edged weapons, are to my mind 'soul less'.........

Gt Obach · 2nd May 2007, 03:36 PM

honestly

when you think about it..... how much did those old blades cost to produce back in ancient times ?.. some the price of a kingdom...

and now you can get them for a song and a dance

not that i'm defending pendray... but he was the pres of the american blade smith assoc. at one time....

G

tsubame1 · 2nd May 2007, 03:49 PM

I wonder what Antonio thinks about this matter...

Andrew · 2nd May 2007, 03:59 PM

Personally, I love the fact modern smiths are continuing the art and traditions of the past. The Pendray blade that started this thread is an excellent example, and one I'd be proud to own.

I, myself, have several modern interpretations of my favorite weapons, and every single one is a work of art. None were inexpensive, and all cost more than I've paid for nearly any antique. I was happy to pay the price for the quality of workmanship in every instance.

Any attempt to compare the "worth" or "value" of antiques to their modern counterparts will fail. You may as well attempt to compare modern hand-crafted furniture to antique furniture.

tsubame1 · 2nd May 2007, 04:05 PM

Not to talk about modern-made swords/furnitures that are made in the same traditional way as the ancient ones making no break in the tradition.
A large part of japanese antiques are cheap junk in front of works by very
talented japanese modern makers.
Sometimes even western makers surpass lower lever antique ones.
I wonder how much this apply to other cultures as well...

Andrew · 2nd May 2007, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsubame1

Not to talk about modern-made swords/furnitures that are made in the same traditional way as the ancient ones making no break in the tradition.
A large part of japanese antiques are cheap junk in front of works by very
talented japanese modern makers.
Sometimes even werstern makers surpass lower lever antique ones.
I wonder how much this apply to other cultures as well...

I agree completely: some of my antiques are junk.

tsubame1 · 2nd May 2007, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

I agree completely: some of my antiques are junk.

My first blade wasn't worthy even of the costs of the restoration...

Lew · 2nd May 2007, 04:34 PM

[QUOTE=Gt Obach]honestly

when you think about it..... how much did those old blades cost to produce back in ancient times ?.. some the price of a kingdom...

and now you can get them for a song and a dance

Gt

I really don't think they would have cost a kingdom for a dagger maybe a horse or something like that. At the last Timonium seminar there was discussion about how much it would cost to supply a warrior in the Polish army during the 16th or 17th century the cost of a good sword was not that expensive. I have heard that during viking times a good sword was worth the equivalent of $25,000 but that was before good steel was available in larger quantities. It is amazing that when you see some modern makers asking $1200 for a small hunting knife and these guys claim they have some super heat treatment which they claim can make 5,000 cuts in a piece of rope before becoming dull. It's all hype and there are a lot of gullible people out there willing to empty their pockets to buy one. I have been there and done that and that is why I now only collect Antique weapons. Pendray is a great guy and he does not think that one needs to charge an arm and a leg for a knife you can buy a wootz dagger from him for about what you would pay for an antique one. Btw the funniest thing I ever saw was was when at an ABS cutting competition I saw big burly men trying to cut through the wooden dowl of a toilet plunger to prove how good there expensive bowie knives were

you never know when a plunger will jump out from behind a tree and attack you in the woods so you better have one of these knives at your side

Lew

Gt Obach · 2nd May 2007, 04:59 PM

i agree but a horse was still very valuable.. and the daggers must have been aswell

there will alway be hype with blades... just seems to go with the territory..
but the abs does have standards and you should get a decent knife from one of their js or ms smiths....

decent knife for normal situations... excluding fierce plunger attacks, ofcourse

G

ALEX · 2nd May 2007, 05:12 PM

Agree with Lew.
The first expensive modern knife I bought based on "Virtually Undestructible" claims and DVD commercial was a Cold Steel tanto knife. I took it to the jungle and tried to open a coconut. The blade tip snapped without even applying a pressure. Yet you see guys piercing a car hood with it in the commercial. So now I have a $40 good old knife, and it never fails. However, the point is only in QUALITY. It is not fair to compare a bad antique with good modern (and vice versa). Similarly, it is not fair to disrespect the antique artist by comparing the product made with and without ANY modern technology.

Lew · 2nd May 2007, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALEX

Agree with Lew.
It is not fair to compare a bad antique with good modern (and vice versa). Similarly, it is not fair to disrespect the antique artist by comparing the product made with and without ANY modern technology.

Alex

Years ago a famous bladesmith referred to the stuff we collect as tribal junk which I thought was quite snobbish.

Lew

Tim Simmons · 2nd May 2007, 06:01 PM

Snobbish

more like blind ignorance, I wish there were more like him these days

tsubame1 · 2nd May 2007, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Alex

Years ago a famous bladesmith referred to the stuff we collect as tribal junk which I thought was quite snobbish.

Lew

It can even be understood as a racist quote... "tribal junk"...

Anyway, on other fora I'm renown to be "traditionally minded"

but
honestly age is *not* a warranty of quality. Of course you can't expect
from a modern made sword the same feeling an antique (even a junk one)
has, but it's not fair, IMHO to completely put down modern made works.
The one that started this thread seems to me an excellent work, but to
make judgment about the price or the historical/cultural accuracy is
beyond my knowledge.

Gt Obach · 2nd May 2007, 10:05 PM

cold steel sells production knives... .. same idea as the walmart type knives... which some people seem to prefer... ( maybe for the economy, or stainless nature... and that all the good i could possibly say about that )
- they are completely different from a custom knife..

i still maintain that the ancient blades that are bought now ...are usually at unbeatable prices...not at all compared to the old days.. if you were to pay the equivalent now a days... ha ha

... so with that in mind, you are usually getting an acceptable price for some of the decent custom knives being made today...

G

ps... as you can see with the dha that Jesus made.... !

29th April 2007, 07:07 PM	#1
Mare Rosu Deceased Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: USA, DEEP SOUTH, GEORGIA, Y'all hear? Posts: 121	Beautiful Pendray knife as well as the price!! Mr. Pendray did excellent work on this blade. Closed item on eBay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...0253&rd=1&rd=1

29th April 2007, 09:57 PM	#4
Mare Rosu Deceased Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: USA, DEEP SOUTH, GEORGIA, Y'all hear? Posts: 121	OK pictures Pendray knife pictures Attached Images

29th April 2007, 10:08 PM	#5
Mare Rosu Deceased Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: USA, DEEP SOUTH, GEORGIA, Y'all hear? Posts: 121	More pictures Please do not drool on your computer! Attached Images

30th April 2007, 05:14 AM	#7
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	The blade is nice but the furniture is complete fantasy as my mother use to say it's Ongepatcheket (Overdecorated, overdone) Lew Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 30th April 2007 at 02:46 PM.

2nd May 2007, 04:05 PM	#21
tsubame1 Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Magenta, Northern Italy Posts: 123	Not to talk about modern-made swords/furnitures that are made in the same traditional way as the ancient ones making no break in the tradition. A large part of japanese antiques are cheap junk in front of works by very talented japanese modern makers. Sometimes even western makers surpass lower lever antique ones. I wonder how much this apply to other cultures as well... Last edited by tsubame1; 2nd May 2007 at 06:41 PM.

29th April 2007, 07:15 PM	#2
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	A magnificent blade, and I like the lines of the whole thing. The guard flows well with the blade and I like the combination of rib and T-spine. I dislike the fittings though...I think the piece would have been more attractive with a nice wood or ivory scales. Regards, Emanuel

29th April 2007, 09:20 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	would you post some pictures, the link is good butr the pictures are gone.

30th April 2007, 03:59 AM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Personally, I think is is garish.

30th April 2007, 08:57 AM	#8
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Also do not like these fittings. I've seen the similar, but old, filigree fittings on some old Middle Eastern, Albanian/Balkan daggers, but they never impressed me. Agree with Manolo - Woots looks much better in the "natural" fittings, i.e. bone and leather. Also, for THAT price one can get a fine antique wootz sword (or actually several nice and old swords and daggers). Excuse the comment about the price though, it is just my opinion !!!

30th April 2007, 04:56 PM	#9
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Glad I am not alone! The silverwok on this piece is the simplest and the cheapest Caucasian decoration technique. You can see similar examples on e-bay for $19.99 ( stamped blade included ) and the only difference is that the present one is silver. I was told that Georgian mass-producers of these souvenirs employ part-time youngsters ( kind of " flipping hamburgers"-type job) and those start producing commercial wares after 2-3 days of practice. This is fine for a $19.99 trinket, but I would never pay $8,500 for this " Fantasy Sword of Klingon General" !

30th April 2007, 05:33 PM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	You are not alone. I thought this was bad enough with pearls and enamel. I have to sing my own praises . Rather expensive garnets .

30th April 2007, 05:44 PM	#11
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	That's my big gripe with the custom knife business today they make some nice stuff but they charge prices that are astronomical. I once showed a famous knife smith one of my wootz katars that I paid only $150-200 he said it was nice and if I wanted one made by him it would cost $2,000 So why buy a copy when you can have the real deal for much less People just get caught up in the hype that's my opinion. Lew

30th April 2007, 06:52 PM	#12
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Agree with Lew 100%. Modern swordmaking is an industry that manufactures toys and home decorations. Modern-made blades will never be used anyway ( are you going to slice sausages with a $8,500 blade?). For all I know, these high-priced Damascus blades may be no better than Taiwanese dinner knives from K-Mart: nobody will ever put them to practical test. And even if they are 10 times better than Ginsu knives, so what? Whose life had depended on the quality of his sword over the past 150 years? Why would I want to have a blade with no history behind it? Without some romantic story, be it about the owner, the era, the war, the tradition? Some want to revive lost technological process? More power to them. Some want to master old decorating techniques? Great! But to pretend that the final result has anything in common with the old weapons is like selling a "hand-painted" copy of Van Gogh's oil as a real thing and having a gall to ask twice the price of the original (" I had to work very hard to fake Van Gogh's style!")

30th April 2007, 07:37 PM	#13
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Ariel Pendray makes a great knife that's tuff nails and he doesn't charge that much for his work I actually paid very little for an all wootz knife with a 5" blade a few years back. The price sky rockets once the knife falls into one of these purveyor's hands. I have actually over heard them at shows telling other sellers that their prices are to low and to charge more so the big guys don't get under cut so buyer beware I once traded a damascus camp knife a few months later it showed up on one of these websites where it went for fives times what I paid go figure Lew

30th April 2007, 11:30 PM	#14
Mare Rosu Deceased Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: USA, DEEP SOUTH, GEORGIA, Y'all hear? Posts: 121	I also agree on the "garish" as stated by Ariel as well as what Louieblades said. As the blade did not sell also indicates the "Price is not Right". My comments are on the BLADE not the furniture. I think that Pendray's modern wootz is some of the best around. I am of the opinion that Pendray made just the blade and someone else made the rest. I did learn something (any day is a good day when I learn anything, and most of my days are very good) when Ariel stated that it is the cheapest style work. I am always amazed of the collective knowledge of folks on this forum.

1st May 2007, 03:54 AM	#16
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Looks like he's really into garnets and excessive silver filigree too bad for the blades.

2nd May 2007, 03:06 PM	#17
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	It appears that the majority are in agreement....and I have to say IMHO they are right. Fantastic blade...beautiful curves but the furniture OTT and too 'fancy'.......not my cup of tea ...at all....especially at that price You cannot beat the historical .....and dare I say... the romancism of old arms Newly made edged weapons, are to my mind 'soul less'.........

2nd May 2007, 03:36 PM	#18
Gt Obach Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 116	honestly when you think about it..... how much did those old blades cost to produce back in ancient times ?.. some the price of a kingdom... and now you can get them for a song and a dance not that i'm defending pendray... but he was the pres of the american blade smith assoc. at one time.... G

2nd May 2007, 03:49 PM	#19
tsubame1 Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Magenta, Northern Italy Posts: 123	I wonder what Antonio thinks about this matter...

2nd May 2007, 03:59 PM	#20
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Personally, I love the fact modern smiths are continuing the art and traditions of the past. The Pendray blade that started this thread is an excellent example, and one I'd be proud to own. I, myself, have several modern interpretations of my favorite weapons, and every single one is a work of art. None were inexpensive, and all cost more than I've paid for nearly any antique. I was happy to pay the price for the quality of workmanship in every instance. Any attempt to compare the "worth" or "value" of antiques to their modern counterparts will fail. You may as well attempt to compare modern hand-crafted furniture to antique furniture.

2nd May 2007, 04:34 PM	#24
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	[QUOTE=Gt Obach]honestly when you think about it..... how much did those old blades cost to produce back in ancient times ?.. some the price of a kingdom... and now you can get them for a song and a dance Gt I really don't think they would have cost a kingdom for a dagger maybe a horse or something like that. At the last Timonium seminar there was discussion about how much it would cost to supply a warrior in the Polish army during the 16th or 17th century the cost of a good sword was not that expensive. I have heard that during viking times a good sword was worth the equivalent of $25,000 but that was before good steel was available in larger quantities. It is amazing that when you see some modern makers asking $1200 for a small hunting knife and these guys claim they have some super heat treatment which they claim can make 5,000 cuts in a piece of rope before becoming dull. It's all hype and there are a lot of gullible people out there willing to empty their pockets to buy one. I have been there and done that and that is why I now only collect Antique weapons. Pendray is a great guy and he does not think that one needs to charge an arm and a leg for a knife you can buy a wootz dagger from him for about what you would pay for an antique one. Btw the funniest thing I ever saw was was when at an ABS cutting competition I saw big burly men trying to cut through the wooden dowl of a toilet plunger to prove how good there expensive bowie knives were you never know when a plunger will jump out from behind a tree and attack you in the woods so you better have one of these knives at your side Lew

2nd May 2007, 04:59 PM	#25
Gt Obach Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 116	i agree but a horse was still very valuable.. and the daggers must have been aswell there will alway be hype with blades... just seems to go with the territory.. but the abs does have standards and you should get a decent knife from one of their js or ms smiths.... decent knife for normal situations... excluding fierce plunger attacks, ofcourse G

2nd May 2007, 05:12 PM	#26
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Agree with Lew. The first expensive modern knife I bought based on "Virtually Undestructible" claims and DVD commercial was a Cold Steel tanto knife. I took it to the jungle and tried to open a coconut. The blade tip snapped without even applying a pressure. Yet you see guys piercing a car hood with it in the commercial. So now I have a $40 good old knife, and it never fails. However, the point is only in QUALITY. It is not fair to compare a bad antique with good modern (and vice versa). Similarly, it is not fair to disrespect the antique artist by comparing the product made with and without ANY modern technology.

2nd May 2007, 06:01 PM	#28
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Snobbish more like blind ignorance, I wish there were more like him these days

2nd May 2007, 10:05 PM	#30
Gt Obach Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 116	cold steel sells production knives... .. same idea as the walmart type knives... which some people seem to prefer... ( maybe for the economy, or stainless nature... and that all the good i could possibly say about that ) - they are completely different from a custom knife.. i still maintain that the ancient blades that are bought now ...are usually at unbeatable prices...not at all compared to the old days.. if you were to pay the equivalent now a days... ha ha ... so with that in mind, you are usually getting an acceptable price for some of the decent custom knives being made today... G ps... as you can see with the dha that Jesus made.... !