ALGERIAN MIQULET FOR COMMENT

[BANDOOK]

DEAR FRIENDS I BOUGHT MYSELF A XMAS GIFT,THIS ALGERIAN MIQULET IS 164 CMS OVER 6 FEET ,HAS HAD MUCH USE,DECORATED WITH IVORY,SILVER AND RED CORAL
MORE INFORMATION WILL BE APPRECIATED
RICK AND KUBUR NEED YOUR COMMENTS THANKS

[Kubur]

My Dear Friend
Congratulations, it's a very good catch.
An authentic Algerian moukhala and a very good one, with silver and coral decorations, very good barrel bands, and a very good lock too.
Do you have an Arabic signature under the spring?
Do you have a photo of the barrel?
Can you do a photo of the ramrod? It looks very good too!
Best wishes,
Kubur

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

For the mark often seen on Algerian guns see~

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ALGERIAN+STAMP at # 149 photos 1 and 2. and #176 photos 1 and 2.

Also http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...GERIAN+STAMP#3 photo 5.

One of the marks was found on a sword and one on an Algerian gun...Identical.

Both placed below for reference.

[BANDOOK]

Originally Posted by Kubur

My Dear Friend
Congratulations, it's a very good catch.
An authentic Algerian moukhala and a very good one, with silver and coral decorations, very good barrel bands, and a very good lock too.
Do you have an Arabic signature under the spring?
Do you have a photo of the barrel?
Can you do a photo of the ramrod? It looks very good too!
Best wishes,
Kubur

Thanks Kubur I will send you pictures as soon as the gun is in my hand ,hopefully by the weekend.thanks for your comments regards Rajesh

[BANDOOK]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

For the mark often seen on Algerian guns see~

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ALGERIAN+STAMP at # 149 photos 1 and 2. and #176 photos 1 and 2.

Also http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...GERIAN+STAMP#3 photo 5.

One of the marks was found on a sword and one on an Algerian gun...Identical.

Both placed below for reference.

Saalams Ibrahiim,thanks will check the signatures on my gun and put up some pictures,it will be with me soon,Inshallah
regards Rajesh

[rickystl]

Hi Rajesh.

WOW!! Great find. Congratulations. Yes, please post more pics after you receive it. That gun should clean up very nice. And would take only minor restoration - should you desire.
LOCK: On these Algerian locks the mainspring operates off the TOE of the hammer. In this case, it looks like the mainspring has slipped off the hammer, or otherwise become detached from one another. But looking at the photos it does not seem to have broke anywhere. If so, it will just take a mainspring vise to re-engage it to the hammer. Note: These mainsprings are very strong, and care must be taken not to damage the lock.
A little bit of cleaning and work should make this a nice display piece. Can't wait to see more pics.

Rick

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

For the mark often seen on Algerian guns see~

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ALGERIAN+STAMP at # 149 photos 1 and 2. and #176 photos 1 and 2.

Also http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...GERIAN+STAMP#3 photo 5.

One of the marks was found on a sword and one on an Algerian gun...Identical.

Both placed below for reference.

Hi Ibrahiim.

I remember this Thread very well. I remember thinking to myself: What are the chances of finding the same makers mark on both a gunlock and a blade ? Likely made in the same shop. Amasing.

Rick

[BANDOOK]

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Rajesh.

WOW!! Great find. Congratulations. Yes, please post more pics after you receive it. That gun should clean up very nice. And would take only minor restoration - should you desire.
LOCK: On these Algerian locks the mainspring operates off the TOE of the hammer. In this case, it looks like the mainspring has slipped off the hammer, or otherwise become detached from one another. But looking at the photos it does not seem to have broke anywhere. If so, it will just take a mainspring vise to re-engage it to the hammer. Note: These mainsprings are very strong, and care must be taken not to damage the lock.
A little bit of cleaning and work should make this a nice display piece. Can't wait to see more pics.

Rick

THANKS RICK WILL TAKE IT TO A GUNSMITH AND GET THAT RECTIFIED AS AM NOT GOOD AT WORKING ON GUNS,SCARED I MAY DAMAGE PARTS
WILL ALSO SEND MORE PICTURES ONCE I GET IT IN MY HAND
KIND REGARDS RAJESH

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Ibrahiim.

I remember this Thread very well. I remember thinking to myself: What are the chances of finding the same makers mark on both a gunlock and a blade ? Likely made in the same shop. Amasing.

Rick

I recall well the event! It was to me incredible, however, Mr Blalock for some reason (probably because he was very busy) didn't get back to me. I too was amazed by the coincidence and the same mark being struck on a blade. I wondered if the simple cross occasionally on blades in the region was some kind of short variation on that mark...?

[Fernando K]

Hello
Just to say it's not a lock miguelete. Is a lock "to the morlacca" or "to the mojaca". The miguelete has "pin" and two "chocks". This key has a safety hook, and the shot is produced by a single "chock". It has many characteristics of the lock miguelete and has as antecedent the lock of "agujeta". It was produced by the Bresia gunsmiths to export to the East, and then copied by the native gunsmiths.

Fernando K

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by Fernando K

Hello
Just to say it's not a lock miguelete. Is a lock "to the morlacca" or "to the mojaca". The miguelete has "pin" and two "chocks". This key has a safety hook, and the shot is produced by a single "chock". It has many characteristics of the lock miguelete and has as antecedent the lock of "agujeta".

That's correct and very true.

Originally Posted by Fernando K

Hello
It was produced by the Bresia gunsmiths to export to the East, and then copied by the native gunsmiths.
Fernando K

I'm not sure about that.
I was thinking that this lock came from Spanish Holland to Spain and then North Africa...
What you propose is probably true for the Balkans and also Turkey.
Kubur

[Miqueleter]

I am solidly with Fernando K on this one, that is, this lock is a "stretched" agujeta lock, a type of lock probably born in Brescia, copied in North Africa, may or may not have preceded the classic patilla miquelet, but certainly ended up as the "romanlock". This lock appears to be missing the "catch" part of the back catch to the hammer, which leaves the lock with only one precarious full cock bent/notch/choke.

Kubar hinted that the lock may have come from Holland. Maybe so. The N. African model of the snaphance most likely came from Holland, as well as other European manufacturers for the North African trade, some locks and such for ransom payments and just plain commerce. No dispute on that, per Elgood. Just sayin'

At any rate, nice find. Respectfully, Jw

[Fernando K]

Miqueleter

The lock of "agujeta" called by the Spaniards also "lock of transition" also influences to the lock of Ceylan, via Portugal

Fernando K

[BANDOOK]

THANKS FERNANDO K,MIQUELTER J.K ,KUBUR,IBRAHIIM,RICK
SOME MORE PICTURES AS PROMISED AS GUN IS IN MY HAND NOW
MANY THANKS RAJESH

[Fernando K]

Hello, Bandook

It seems to me that the end of the royal pier has broken. It's like this

Fernando K

[BANDOOK]

HI FERNANDO NO PICTURE TO SHOW AN EXAMPLE,REGARDS RAJESH

[rickystl]

Hi Rajesh.

Thanks for the additional photos. It looks like a nice piece, that should clean up well with a little work.
After looking further, it does appear Fernando K is correct. It seems a tiny piece of the brass covered support plate, just in front of the screw, is broke. But the mainspring does not rest on this piece. It rests on the toe of the hammer. See photo below. The mainspring does not "appear" to be broke. Possibly someone was trying to do some type of repair, but did not really know what they are doing (?) Hopefully, there is a gunsmith in your area that is familiar with the early guns/locks. You would be surprised at how many modern gunsmiths are not. If you can't locate one, send me a PM.

Rick

[rickystl]

Woops. Forgot to post the photo.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by BANDOOK

DEAR FRIENDS I BOUGHT MYSELF A XMAS GIFT,THIS ALGERIAN MIQULET IS 164 CMS OVER 6 FEET ,HAS HAD MUCH USE,DECORATED WITH IVORY,SILVER AND RED CORAL
MORE INFORMATION WILL BE APPRECIATED
RICK AND KUBUR NEED YOUR COMMENTS THANKS

Looking at the pan cover I see what could be an inscription ...see your 7th picture... The left narrow panel of the pan cover .

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[BANDOOK]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Looking at the pan cover I see what could be an inscription ...see your 7th picture... The left narrow panel of the pan cover .

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

YES IBRAHIIM,SAALAMS I SEE IT BUT NO IDEA OF TRANSLATION MAKERS NAME,AM NOT BOLD AS RICK TO OPEN UP THE GUN AND DO COMPLETE RESTORATION,SCARED TO BREAK PARTS ,BUT WILL TAKE IT TO A LOCAL GUNSMITH AND DO WHAT RICK SUGGESTED.
THANKS EVERYONE WHO HAVE COMMENTED/SUGGESTED ON MY POST
REGARDS
RAJESH

[Fernando K]

Hello everyone

If the larger spring has escaped from its position on the front of the cat's foot, when it has reached the full cock position, it means that the end of the spring or foot of the cat foot has been broken. It is what you see in the photographs, the cat's foot has reached the extreme position, and the spring has come out

Fernando K

[BANDOOK]

CAN WE SEE EXAMPLES OF POWDER FLASK FROM ALGERIA WHICH WERE USED DURING THE SAME PERIOD OF THESE MUSKETS,I HAVE POWDER FLASKS FROM NEIGHBOURING MOROCCO BUT NONE FROM ALGERIA,REGARDS RAJESH

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by Fernando K

Hello everyone

If the larger spring has escaped from its position on the front of the cat's foot, when it has reached the full cock position, it means that the end of the spring or foot of the cat foot has been broken. It is what you see in the photographs, the cat's foot has reached the extreme position, and the spring has come out

Fernando K

Of course, what Fernando K is saying is correct. Where the toe of the hammer meets the mainspring, if either/both is broke, the mainspring would fall out of position as shown. This would require a more serious repair. But it can be done if desired. To me, neither looks broke from the photos. But it could have happened long ago back in the period. It's just too difficult to tell for sure from the photos. But the gunsmith will probably know. The gun does appear to have seen regular usage. It may have been used up to the point of a broke mainspring or hammer. In any case, let us know what the gunsmith thinks. Thanks.

Rick

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by BANDOOK

CAN WE SEE EXAMPLES OF POWDER FLASK FROM ALGERIA WHICH WERE USED DURING THE SAME PERIOD OF THESE MUSKETS,I HAVE POWDER FLASKS FROM NEIGHBOURING MOROCCO BUT NONE FROM ALGERIA,REGARDS RAJESH

Hi Rajesh.

That's one I don't have in my collection. Like you, I have ones traceable to Morocco, but not Algeria. It seems many of the Algerian flasks were made of wood. Artzi has had a couple for sale in the past. And I should have bought one while I had the chance. But I haven't seen anything offered for a while. But I haven't been looking very hard either, being busy with other gun projects.
I know of one currently for sale. But the seller wants wayyyy too much for it.
Maybe one of the other Forum members has an example?

Rick

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by BANDOOK

CAN WE SEE EXAMPLES OF POWDER FLASK FROM ALGERIA WHICH WERE USED DURING THE SAME PERIOD OF THESE MUSKETS,I HAVE POWDER FLASKS FROM NEIGHBOURING MOROCCO BUT NONE FROM ALGERIA,REGARDS RAJESH

Hi Rajesh,

Rick is always right : wood and even overpriced object.
I attach two classical examples.
Please, note that some of the so-called Moroccans were probably Algerians in fact.
Plus you have another kind, a small powder horn made of full silver and for the elite in Algiers, I will post one photo later...

Best,
Kubur

[BANDOOK]

Thanks Kubur
nice examples on the stamps,so we know know what they look like at auctions,sales etc
regards Rajesh

[BANDOOK]

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Rajesh.

That's one I don't have in my collection. Like you, I have ones traceable to Morocco, but not Algeria. It seems many of the Algerian flasks were made of wood. Artzi has had a couple for sale in the past. And I should have bought one while I had the chance. But I haven't seen anything offered for a while. But I haven't been looking very hard either, being busy with other gun projects.
I know of one currently for sale. But the seller wants wayyyy too much for it.
Maybe one of the other Forum members has an example?

Rick

Thanks Rick,will look around as I definitely want one example for my Algerian musket as they will look good togather,Regards RAJESH

[rickystl]

Originally Posted by BANDOOK

Thanks Rick,will look around as I definitely want one example for my Algerian musket as they will look good togather,Regards RAJESH

Good luck on your search. The photos on the stamps that Kubur posted are typical of the wood styles I've seen. And there does seem to be some cross usage/design between Algeria and Morocco with these flasks. They don't seem to turn up for sale very often.

Rick

[BANDOOK]

THANKS RICK
WILL HUNT AND AM SURE SOMEWHERE DOWN THE LINE WILL GET IT,NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE,WE SOMETIMES HAVE TO DREAM
CHEERS RAJESH