Help in terminology in other languages

[Billman]

I am attempting to compile a list of words, specifically related to edge tools, but also applicable to many types of weapon. Can anyone help with:
a) checking what I have is correct
b) filling in blanks
c) adding terms in other languages

Many thanks in anticipation....

[Sajen]

Here some better/more usual or more precise terms in german.

handle - das Heft (is correct) but more usual der Griff

tang - der Griffzapfen (more usual)

ferrule - die Muffe, der Ring (but die Zwinge is also correct)

socket - die Buchse (also usual)

hook - der Haken (common)

edge tools - die Schneidwerkzeuge

pruning - der Schnitt

bevel - die Fase

bend - die Biegung, die Krümmung

paring knife - das Schneidmesser, das Trennmesser

pike - der Dorn

hatchet- das Beil, die Axt

handle - der Griff


I hope that this help a little bit.

Regards,

Detlef

[mrwizard]

And here another opinion on the german terms

Handle - for tools "Griff" is more common, "Heft" is more common for weapons

tang - sorry, sajen but i never heard the term "Griffzapfen" before. Where i live (about 100km from you ) "Angel" or "Erl" is used

bevel - "Fase" is correct but IMHO "Anschliff" or "Schliff" is more commonly used.

There has been a similar effort on a german knife forum.
I don't have the allowance to post the pictures here, so i will just link to the relevant posts:

german and english terms for blades
http://www.messerforum.net/showthread.php?t=69730

german and english terms for knifes with fixed blades
http://www.messerforum.net/showthread.php?t=2723

german and japanese terms for cooking knifes:
http://www.messerforum.net/showthread.php?t=71115

Best Regards,
Thilo

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by mrwizard

And here another opinion on the german terms

Handle - for tools "Griff" is more common, "Heft" is more common for weapons

tang - sorry, sajen but i never heard the term "Griffzapfen" before. Where i live (about 100km from you ) "Angel" or "Erl" is used

bevel - "Fase" is correct but IMHO "Anschliff" or "Schliff" is more commonly used.

There has been a similar effort on a german knife forum.
I don't have the allowance to post the pictures here, so i will just link to the relevant posts:

german and english terms for blades
http://www.messerforum.net/showthread.php?t=69730

german and english terms for knifes with fixed blades
http://www.messerforum.net/showthread.php?t=2723

german and japanese terms for cooking knifes:
http://www.messerforum.net/showthread.php?t=71115

Best Regards,
Thilo

Hello Thilo,

I collect keris and other weapons from SEA. It's very common to use the term "Keris-Griff" and not "Keris-Heft" same as "Schwert-Griff" at last colloquial.
Agree that the term "Angel" is usual (technical) but never heard the term "Erl". I think that every german will know what is meant by "Griffzapfen" since it explains very well the meaning. But of course "Angel" is a good translation.
But agree complete with you that "Schliff" or "Anschliff" is a better translation than "Fase"(Fase is more technical).
BTW, just use the online translator "Leo" for tang, it's given "Angel", Griffangel" and "Griffzapfen" and some others but not "Erl". But I am sure when we ask someone from the South of Germany he will give us a term we both never heard.

Best regards,

Detlef

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by Sajen

BTW, just use the online translator "Leo" for tang, it's given "Angel", Griffangel" and "Griffzapfen" and some others but not "Erl". But I am sure when we ask someone from the South of Germany he will give us a term we both never heard.

I"m sure Kai knows what a Griffzapfen is, although he is living more southly than you guys......

Literally translated "Griffzapfen" to the Dutch language will be "Greeptik"..
I am sure if I am talking about a "Greeptik" to my friendcollectors, they would think I am loosing my mind and are on the edge of getting crazy...

Kind Regards,
Maurice

[Billman]

Thanks guys - please keep the replies flowing in.... From the answers so far you can see why I am having problems....

Even the names for tools (and weapons) vary from region to region in a country - so far for France I have about 20 different names for the billhook....

France is not unique - before the early 19th century it was a disparate collection of different states, each with several regional languages, with different dialects and patois.... Germany was not unified until after WW1, and the Austro-Hungarian Empire had about twelve different 'official' languages...

Even English varies from England to the USA (and Australasia, South Africa, India etc)....

[mrwizard]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Thilo,
others but not "Erl". But I am sure when we ask someone from the South of Germany he will give us a term we both never heard.

Definitely

There are a lot of german words that are limited to
certain regions or certain contexts. "Heft" or "Hilze" is a rather antiquated term i often see in the context of european bladed weapons. As Billman wanted terms for "edged tools" "Griff" would indeed be more appropiate
(and contemporary).

And here a link to prove that i didn't make the term "Erl" up by myself:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erl_%28Klinge%29

Best Regards,
Thilo

[Dom]

Originally Posted by Billman

I am attempting to compile a list of words, specifically related to edge tools, but also applicable to many types of weapon. Can anyone help with:
a) checking what I have is correct
b) filling in blanks
c) adding terms in other languages

Many thanks in anticipation....

very good job, will be usefull

"la Taillanderie" means in French;
- Manufactures cutting tools (late 19 th century) and not "Edge Tools"
from English the expression;
- EDGE TOOLS means in French OUTILS TRANCHANTS

from latin the word ;
- CULTER means in French COUTEAU

from latin the word ;
- SCALPRUM means in French SCALPEL (like in English)

all the best

à +

Dom

[Marc]

Ok, let’s give it a first quick try. Some of the terms are pretty generic, some are so specific that they probably have either trade or regional variations… more probably both at the same time. The terms regarding the parts of the bill are most likely to come under this category. But let’s see what can be done.



Blade : Hoja (Generic)

Handle: Mango (Generic. Also “puño” or “empuñadura” when dealing with weapons. “Maceta” is referred to the handle of some tools. ).

Tang: Espiga.

Ferrule: Virola

Socket: Cubo (Generic for bayonets, spears or polearm heads. May be applied to tools. Be careful, is a technical term in this context, in a general conversation it means “bucket” as well as other things).

Back: Dorso, Lomo (when blunt).

Cutting Edge: Filo. (Generic. There’s no “Filo” which isn’t “Cutting”, either literally, metaphorically or implicitly. “Trinchante” is… well, see above about the regional and particular variations. The sense is, of course, conveyed, and normally implies some kind of chopping action.)

Hook (front): Gancho, Garfio (Generic. There is probably a specific term for a bill, but I don’t know it. Wouldn’t be surprised if would involve a variation of “pico”[“beak”])

Hook (back): Gancho, Garfio (Generic. See above.)

Edge Tools: Herramientas de corte / de filo (Generic. “Cuchillería” is generic for “knives”, or, better, “the knife industry and its products”)

(Hand) Tool: Herramienta (de mano) (“Tool” = ”Herramienta”. “Hand” = “Mano”. “Útil” is also a good translation).

Cutting or Edge Tool: Herramienta de corte / de filo (again)

Iron: Hierro

Steel: Acero

Wood: Madera

Pruning: Poda

Single Edge (d): de un filo / de un solo filo

Double Edge (d): de doble filo.

Bevel: Mesa (this is also a technical term in this context. In general conversation it means “table” as well as a lot of other things)

Single Bevel: a una mesa.

Double Bevel: a dos mesas.

Concave: Cóncavo.

Convex: Convexo.

Straight: Recto.

To Cut: Cortar (generic)

To Chop: Cortar, picar (this, as well as Split, below, is a bit tricky, and it’s involving some personal assumptions. Handle with care).

To Prune: Podar

To Split: Partir (this is a bit tricky, and it’s involving some personal assumptions. Handle with care).




Language questions are frequently hard to nail down, but, hey, it's worth an attempt, at least.

For the Spanish translation of (European) sword-related terms, I would also like to reccomend the Glossary in the webpage of a good friend of mine, HERE.

[Rich]

I have a fairly complete glossary of terms for Japanese swords on my website at:

http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/glossry.htm

also there is a good start on terms for Nordic knives on a download on my Nordic Knives site at only it is in XLS format, but you can download it for the terminology:

http://home.earthlink.net/~rsblade/nordlist.xls

Rich S

[TimW]

Hy there. I want to add that there is no need to use capitals in French - only in German.

Stick tang = une soie (F)
full tang = plate semelle
double edged = à double tranchant
bevel = émouture (= grind (E))
concave = concave (courbé = bend) = creux (une émouture creuse)
convex = convexe (ventré is never/hardly used)
straight = droit
to chop = couper (they say - i cut a tree)
cutting edge = le tranchant
cutting tool = outil coupant / outil tranchant
edged tools = outils tranchants (taillanderie = group name of the art of making edged tools / whole array of edged tools (including spades, chisels, ...))


If you want to include Dutch into your list: i can translate that too if you want.

hope this helps you further

[thinreadline]

Very useful lists emerging .. here are a few more French words that may help:
chape .. bouterolle
frog stud .. bouton de chape
top mount .. chape
groove .. cannelure
fuller ... gouttiere
false edge .. contre-tranchant
scabbard .. fourreau
crossguard .. croisiere
maker .. fabricant
grips ... plaquette
hilt .. poignee
pommel ..pommeau
quillon... quillon
ricasso .. ricasso or talon
tang .. soie
true or sharpened edge .. tranchant