Marking on the dagger blade

Evgeny_K · 14th February 2018, 05:28 PM

Gents,
Please help to id this marking if it possible.
Blade looks like remains of European dagger.
Thank you in advance,
Evgeny

mariusgmioc · 16th February 2018, 02:11 PM

I guess nobody recognizes the marking.

fernando · 16th February 2018, 07:20 PM

Such a pity, Evgeny. It is so clear and no one recognizes it.

Helleri · 1st March 2018, 09:51 PM

All I can say is that the shield shape looks like a Victorian wedge. And the arrow with the line looks like a simplified anchor.

cornelistromp · 2nd March 2018, 11:41 AM

with the short tapered tang and the remains of a rivet, is this probably about the blade of a plug bayonet, 17thC.

one could try to find the mark in this category.

best,
jasper

fernando · 2nd March 2018, 05:42 PM

That is surpising news, Jasper ... at least to me

.
According to authority R.D.C. Evans and also to a few plug bayonets i have and had myself, always we have a pin-tang system, which runs full length of the hilt. Very, very rarely we have a push tang, where a short tapered tang passes through an aperture in the crossguard, the grip added by hammering it onto the remaining tang length, secured by friction or by gluing, a popular table-cuttlery method, visibly lacking in strenght. In any case, no rivets taking place ... at least that i have heard of

.

.

cornelistromp · 5th March 2018, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

That is surpising news, Jasper ... at least to me

.
According to authority R.D.C. Evans and also to a few plug bayonets i have and had myself, always we have a pin-tang system, which runs full length of the hilt. Very, very rarely we have a push tang, where a short tapered tang passes through an aperture in the crossguard, the grip added by hammering it onto the remaining tang length, secured by friction or by gluing, a popular table-cuttlery method, visibly lacking in strenght. In any case, no rivets taking place ... at least that i have heard of

.

.

some spanish and probably also portugese do have rivets .

best,
Jasper

fernando · 5th March 2018, 05:00 PM

I dare say Jasper, that this beautiful dagger is not a plug bayonet. Its handle lacks the obligatory shape, namely the grip swell.

.

cornelistromp · 6th March 2018, 10:14 AM

for me it is more a bayonet, besides only taper is needed to stay in the barrel. see eg English bayonet from the end of the 17th century.

best,
jasper

fernando · 6th March 2018, 12:46 PM

Let me try and make myself understood, Jasper ...

You must have the grip tapering in a way that you push it firmly towards the swell, until you get it 'stuck', to prevent it from oscilating; no more 'hollow' space between this and the crossguard ferrule.
The British example you show is correct; but i am afraid your previous example doesn't fit into the plug bayonet category.
I am no expert though; but it helps to look at a couple hundred plug bayonets in rather comprehensive R.D.C. book; none has rivets in their handles, by the way.

.

cornelistromp · 9th March 2018, 08:55 AM

although it is not in the book of Evans, for me it is a plug bayonet and one with a riveted grip.
if you have a different opinion, which differs from mine, that is absolutely fine of course.

best,
Jasper

fernando · 9th March 2018, 10:28 AM

Met vriendelijke groeten

14th February 2018, 05:28 PM	#1
Evgeny_K Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 208	Marking on the dagger blade Gents, Please help to id this marking if it possible. Blade looks like remains of European dagger. Thank you in advance, Evgeny Attached Images

2nd March 2018, 05:42 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	That is surpising news, Jasper ... at least to me . According to authority R.D.C. Evans and also to a few plug bayonets i have and had myself, always we have a pin-tang system, which runs full length of the hilt. Very, very rarely we have a push tang, where a short tapered tang passes through an aperture in the crossguard, the grip added by hammering it onto the remaining tang length, secured by friction or by gluing, a popular table-cuttlery method, visibly lacking in strenght. In any case, no rivets taking place ... at least that i have heard of . . Last edited by fernando; 2nd March 2018 at 09:08 PM.

5th March 2018, 05:00 PM	#8
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I dare say Jasper, that this beautiful dagger is not a plug bayonet. Its handle lacks the obligatory shape, namely the grip swell. . Attached Images

6th March 2018, 10:14 AM	#9
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	for me it is more a bayonet, besides only taper is needed to stay in the barrel. see eg English bayonet from the end of the 17th century. best, jasper Attached Images

6th March 2018, 12:46 PM	#10
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Let me try and make myself understood, Jasper ... You must have the grip tapering in a way that you push it firmly towards the swell, until you get it 'stuck', to prevent it from oscilating; no more 'hollow' space between this and the crossguard ferrule. The British example you show is correct; but i am afraid your previous example doesn't fit into the plug bayonet category. I am no expert though; but it helps to look at a couple hundred plug bayonets in rather comprehensive R.D.C. book; none has rivets in their handles, by the way. . Attached Images

16th February 2018, 02:11 PM	#2
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	I guess nobody recognizes the marking.

16th February 2018, 07:20 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Such a pity, Evgeny. It is so clear and no one recognizes it.

1st March 2018, 09:51 PM	#4
Helleri Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Chino, CA. Posts: 219	All I can say is that the shield shape looks like a Victorian wedge. And the arrow with the line looks like a simplified anchor.

2nd March 2018, 11:41 AM	#5
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	with the short tapered tang and the remains of a rivet, is this probably about the blade of a plug bayonet, 17thC. one could try to find the mark in this category. best, jasper

9th March 2018, 08:55 AM	#11
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	although it is not in the book of Evans, for me it is a plug bayonet and one with a riveted grip. if you have a different opinion, which differs from mine, that is absolutely fine of course. best, Jasper

9th March 2018, 10:28 AM	#12
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Met vriendelijke groeten