Kindjals Civilian or military?

Andy Davis · 20th October 2005, 07:25 PM

Hello all
Have a load of post today but will do each sepperate.
First two kindjals, sold as a pair but certainly not, as both have differences, let alone the engraving on the blade and stamps that are only on the one.
Any opinions? Blades seem far better quality to the hilts so I'm thinking possible rebuild.
Cheers
Andy

ariel · 20th October 2005, 09:36 PM

It is marked "KKB" (or KKV if one wants to transliterate).
Kubanskoye Kazachye Voysko: Kuban Cossack Host (Army).
Military Russian Kindjal, pre-1917.

Rivkin · 20th October 2005, 11:05 PM

AFAIK, a lot of kkv pattern kindjals were made in Zlatoust, Russia, even through fullers are similar to some of dagestani patterns. Both of these kindjals seem to be quite typical KKV examples.

ham · 20th October 2005, 11:58 PM

Rivkin is right, most of these were made in Zlatoust. They should be marked on the reverse forte ZOF in Cyrillic. Most are dated just below this as well.

Ham

ariel · 21st October 2005, 01:26 AM

Agree.These were not truly Caucasian weapons, but rather military implements. As such, they were under control of the central military authorities and were mass-produced in Russia proper.

Phil · 21st October 2005, 07:05 PM

Greetings from a long-time lurker.

That IS the Zlatoust mark. See following photo of a Shaska I had briefly in my possession.

If you confront it with the second photo, you should make out “ZOF” in Cyrillic on the latter.

Andy Davis · 22nd October 2005, 10:56 AM

Cheers for the info. Two better pictures here, of the stamps on both sides. Its still hard to make out the date but seems to be 189?.
Why is it assumed that it is a fake?
Whats the difference....as regards the blade. I have little doubt the fittings arent original.
Cheers
Andy

20th October 2005, 07:25 PM	#1
Andy Davis Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: England, Northumberland Posts: 85	Kindjals Civilian or military? Hello all Have a load of post today but will do each sepperate. First two kindjals, sold as a pair but certainly not, as both have differences, let alone the engraving on the blade and stamps that are only on the one. Any opinions? Blades seem far better quality to the hilts so I'm thinking possible rebuild. Cheers Andy Attached Images

21st October 2005, 07:05 PM	#6
Phil Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6	Greetings from a long-time lurker. That IS the Zlatoust mark. See following photo of a Shaska I had briefly in my possession. If you confront it with the second photo, you should make out “ZOF” in Cyrillic on the latter. Attached Images

22nd October 2005, 10:56 AM	#7
Andy Davis Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: England, Northumberland Posts: 85	Better photos Cheers for the info. Two better pictures here, of the stamps on both sides. Its still hard to make out the date but seems to be 189?. Why is it assumed that it is a fake? Whats the difference....as regards the blade. I have little doubt the fittings arent original. Cheers Andy Attached Images

20th October 2005, 09:36 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	It is marked "KKB" (or KKV if one wants to transliterate). Kubanskoye Kazachye Voysko: Kuban Cossack Host (Army). Military Russian Kindjal, pre-1917.

20th October 2005, 11:05 PM	#3
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	AFAIK, a lot of kkv pattern kindjals were made in Zlatoust, Russia, even through fullers are similar to some of dagestani patterns. Both of these kindjals seem to be quite typical KKV examples.

20th October 2005, 11:58 PM	#4
ham Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 190	Rivkin is right, most of these were made in Zlatoust. They should be marked on the reverse forte ZOF in Cyrillic. Most are dated just below this as well. Ham

21st October 2005, 01:26 AM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Agree.These were not truly Caucasian weapons, but rather military implements. As such, they were under control of the central military authorities and were mass-produced in Russia proper.