Japanese matchlock Teppo

[Cerjak]

Hi everybody

Just for show a new buying: a small Teppo ( 79,5 cm).
I would like to learn more about Japanese matchlock gun so if someone could suggest me good book or website it will be great.
Any comments or picture from similar Gun will be welcome

Best regards
CERJAK

[trenchwarfare]

Very interesting piece. I own five, and have owned a few more. Have yet to get my hands on a "carbine" length example. There are only two modern publications on the subject, that I know of. Volumes one and two of "The Japanese Matchlock -A story of the Tanegashima-" By Shigea Sugawa. Volume 1 is in English, the other in Japanese. There are some older books available, but they are all in Japanese, and quite expensive.
Given the simplicity of construction, and crudeness of decoration, I'd guess that your gun is either a gunsmiths early attenpt, or something made for the tourist trade. It does show signs of long term use. Whatever it is, I like it!
I'll see if I can come with more info.

[Cerjak]

Originally Posted by trenchwarfare

Very interesting piece. I own five, and have owned a few more. Have yet to get my hands on a "carbine" length example. There are only two modern publications on the subject, that I know of. Volumes one and two of "The Japanese Matchlock -A story of the Tanegashima-" By Shigea Sugawa. Volume 1 is in English, the other in Japanese. There are some older books available, but they are all in Japanese, and quite expensive.
Given the simplicity of construction, and crudeness of decoration, I'd guess that your gun is either a gunsmiths early attenpt, or something made for the tourist trade. It does show signs of long term use. Whatever it is, I like it!
I'll see if I can come with more info.

Many thank for your help I will try to find this book in english .
I have with my teppo an expert appraisal from b.croissy ( French well know expert ) who says that it is a XIX century period so I hope it is a good one.
If you have some pictures from yours I will be happy to see them.
Best regards
CERJAK

[T. Koch]

Wow, what an awesome gun! I really like it's lines and flow. It's also cool to see the Japanese minimalist aesthetics expressed in some of it parts, the cock for instance. Thanks for sharing it!

Take care, - Thor

[estcrh]

Cerjak, is the barrel bolt (bisen) removable?

Here is a link to Shigeo Sugawa's website, he has a lot of usefull information and pictures, you can purchase his book directly through his site by contacting him, the email address is on his site.
http://www.japaneseweapons.net/hinaw...ui/english.htm

[fearn]

I have an off-the-wall question, for a project I'm working on: did the japanese have any bronze or brass-barreled matchlocks?

Thanks in advance,

F

[Cerjak]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Cerjak, is the barrel bolt (bisen) removable?

Here is a link to Shigeo Sugawa's website, he has a lot of usefull information and pictures, you can purchase his book directly through his site by contacting him, the email address is on his site.
http://www.japaneseweapons.net/hinaw...ui/english.htm

Cerjak
Very good website ,a lot of information on it !
About this barrel ‘s square bolt it seems that it could be removable but it is rusty and there is a kind of black protective paint I Guess against the rust so It will be hard to remove it and I would be worry to do it.
But tell me more about those bolts are they always removable?
Regards

[trenchwarfare]

Most of my breach-plugs, can be removed with the fingers. Sometimes a large nail, or similar metal rod is needed. Sounds like yours has been sealed against moisture. One more thing, always check old muzzle loaders, to see if they are loaded. At least 1/3 of the ones I have handled over the years, were. Drop the ram-rod down the barrel, and then mark it to see how deep it goes. Should go at least to the touch hole.

[bluelake]

Look at Tanegashima--The Arrival of Europe in Japan, by Olof Lidin. It's the story of the matchlock in Japan.

[Cerjak]

Originally Posted by trenchwarfare

Most of my breach-plugs, can be removed with the fingers. Sometimes a large nail, or similar metal rod is needed. Sounds like yours has been sealed against moisture. One more thing, always check old muzzle loaders, to see if they are loaded. At least 1/3 of the ones I have handled over the years, were. Drop the ram-rod down the barrel, and then mark it to see how deep it goes. Should go at least to the touch hole.

I have check and didn't find any bullet inside .
Many thanks

Cerjak

[Cerjak]

Originally Posted by bluelake

Look at Tanegashima--The Arrival of Europe in Japan, by Olof Lidin. It's the story of the matchlock in Japan.

Thank you for your advice

Regards

Cerjak

[Cerjak]

marks from the barrel

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Cerjak

Cerjak
Very good website ,a lot of information on it !
About this barrel ‘s square bolt it seems that it could be removable but it is rusty and there is a kind of black protective paint I Guess against the rust so It will be hard to remove it and I would be worry to do it.
But tell me more about those bolts are they always removable?
Regards

Cerjak, tanegashima barrel bolts were always removable but it is not unusual to find them rusted to the point that they can not be easily removed. From what I have read the only problem Japanese sword smiths who were tasked in the 1540's with replicating the matchlocks purchased from Portuguese traders had was with these barrel bolts, and it was not until a year after the Japanese first purchased matchlocks that the Portuguese returned to Japan with a blacksmith who instructed the Japanese on how to thread the barrel for these bolts.

Here is a excellent link to the National Museum of Japanese History, there are some rare prints showing how a Japanese matchlock was manufactured along with some other information, and a link to a Wikipedia article I wrote on tanegashima matchlocks.
http://www.rekihaku.ac.jp/english/pu...14witness.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanegas...ese_matchlock)

Originally Posted by fearn

I have an off-the-wall question, for a project I'm working on: did the japanese have any bronze or brass-barreled matchlocks?

Thanks in advance,

F

Fearn, as far as I know all there were no brass/bronze tanegashima, but the Japanese did cast small brass/bronze cannon with were ignited by hand. At least some of these types of cannon (taihou) were used for firing bo-hiya (fire arrows), these are called "hiya taihou". This image is a small cast brass/bronze hiya-taihou loaded with a bo-hiya.

[Cerjak]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Cerjak, tanegashima barrel bolts were always removable but it is not unusual to find them rusted to the point that they can not be easily removed. From what I have read the only problem Japanese sword smiths who were tasked in the 1540's with replicating the matchlocks purchased from Portuguese traders had was with these barrel bolts, and it was not until a year after the Japanese first purchased matchlocks that the Portuguese returned to Japan with a blacksmith who instructed the Japanese on how to thread the barrel for these bolts.

Here is a excellent link to the National Museum of Japanese History, there are some rare prints showing how a Japanese matchlock was manufactured along with some other information, and a link to a Wikipedia article I wrote on tanegashima matchlocks.
http://www.rekihaku.ac.jp/english/pu...14witness.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanegas...ese_matchlock)

Fean, as far as I know all there were no brass/bronze tanegashima, but the Japanese did cast small brass/bronze cannon with were ignited by hand. At least some of these types of cannon (taihou) were used for firing bo-hiya (fire arrows), these are called "hiya taihou". This image is a small cast brass/bronze hiya-taihou loaded with a bo-hiya.

Hi
Many thanks for this link
because of your answer I just try again to remove this bolts and at last it was possible to turn it, but still not possible to remove it totaly I have put some oil and I will wait a couple of hours there is a lot of rust..
Kind regards
Cerjak

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Cerjak

Hi
Many thanks for this link
because of your answer I just try again to remove this bolts and at last it was possible to turn it, but still not possible to remove it totaly I have put some oil and I will wait a couple of hours there is a lot of rust..
Kind regards
Cerjak

Cerjak, your making progress!! Make sure to use a LOT of oil, the bolt threads are usually quite coarse. There is a special penetrating oil if it still will not come out that you can use, and you do not want to force it as they can snap. You can also put ice on the bolt head before trying to remove it as this will contract the molecules of the bolt slightly. Good luck.

If you get a chance can you take some pictures of the ramrod, thanks.

[Cerjak]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Cerjak, your making progress!! Make sure to use a LOT of oil, the bolt threads are usually quite coarse. There is a special penetrating oil if it still will not come out that you can use, and you do not want to force it as they can snap. You can also put ice on the bolt head before trying to remove it as this will contract the molecules of the bolt slightly. Good luck.

If you get a chance can you take some pictures of the ramrod, thanks.

As you can see now the bolt had been removed ! Thank you for your advice but only one thing was wrong for me :Ice must be for the champagne
see some pic from the ramrod
Kind regards
Cerjak

[BANDOOK]

HI WHERE COULD I GET A RAMROD FOR MY JAP MATCHLOCK,AS IT WAS MISSING WHEN I GOT IT,ANY WEBSITE OR DEALER WOULD HELP,MANY THANKS RAJESH

Originally Posted by Cerjak

As you can see now the bolt had been removed ! Thank you for your advice but only one thing was wrong for me :Ice must be for the champagne
see some pic from the ramrod
Kind regards
Cerjak

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by BANDOOK

HI WHERE COULD I GET A RAMROD FOR MY JAP MATCHLOCK,AS IT WAS MISSING WHEN I GOT IT,ANY WEBSITE OR DEALER WOULD HELP,MANY THANKS RAJESH

You can make a karuka (ramrod) with some hardwood dowel.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by fearn

I have an off-the-wall question, for a project I'm working on: did the japanese have any bronze or brass-barreled matchlocks? Thanks in advance, F

While looking at this thread I realized that I answered wrong here

Originally Posted by estcrh

Fearn, as far as I know all there were no brass/bronze tanegashima, but the Japanese did cast small brass/bronze cannon with were ignited by hand.

There are actually quite a few bronze barreled Japanese matchlock pistols. Below are two examples, one is basically a hand cannon with little decoration, the other is a smaller caliber with a highly decorated barrel.

[rickystl]

Hi Cerjak.

That is a nice looking carbine length Teppo. Congrats.
As far as the breech bolt removal, I was about to recommend Kroil oil. (best I've used). But I see you have already accomplised the removal. Great !!
What we normally associate with a breech plug is a shorter length plug with fine threads that tightens against the breech face of the barrel somewhat similar to a wheel lug of an automobile.
Rather, in the case of Teppo barrels, they use a bolt (better term in this case) with coarse threads, and longer length. The flat face of the bolt simply meets the breech flush. The bolt head is then held firm in the snug fitting hole in the stock. Actually, a clever design. While unusual, it does in fact work. I've never had an issue while firing mine.
Again. congrats. A nice piece.
Rick.

[rickystl]

While on this subject, this might be a good time to pose a question about these Teppo's that is still a mystery to me. That being the design of the front and rear sights. Especially the rear.

First the rear site: On the top there is a very thin slot with a partially drilled hole. On the side there is a hole that runs horizontal through the width of the sight. This one horizontal hole seems to be common on every Teppo I've seen.

Front sight: Again, a partially drilled vertical hole (like the rear sight) is present, along with a slot.

It seems that both sights were designed for some type of additional attachements. But I have no idea what it would be. Any ideas about this?

Here are pics of the rear sight:

[rickystl]

And here is the front sight:

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by rickystl

While on this subject, this might be a good time to pose a question about these Teppo's that is still a mystery to me. That being the design of the front and rear sights. Especially the rear.

First the rear site: On the top there is a very thin slot with a partially drilled hole. On the side there is a hole that runs horizontal through the width of the sight. This one horizontal hole seems to be common on every Teppo I've seen.

Front sight: Again, a partially drilled vertical hole (like the rear sight) is present, along with a slot.

It seems that both sights were designed for some type of additional attachements. But I have no idea what it would be. Any ideas about this?

Here are pics of the rear sight:

Rick, may people have pondered this question, obviously these sights were used in some why that we are just not understanding, probably due the the movable part of the sight being missing on most Japanese matchlock, all we see is the base.

You have to go back to the old samurai gun manuals that each individual school of gunnery kept, these were secret manuals meant to pass on the accumulated knowledge of each school to its students.

I have some images from these gun manuals on my Pinterest site, here is a link.

Japanese firearms illustrations through the Meiji period.


https://www.pinterest.com/worldantiq...gh-the-meiji-/

[estcrh]

Shigeo Sugawa has a web site both in English and Japanese which is well worth taking some time to browse through, he has info on all types of Japanese firearms and other weapons etc. Shigeo is the author of "The Japanese matchlock:The Story of the Tanegashima"

Below is the must complete glossary of Japanese matchlock terms that I know of.


http://www.xn--u9j370humdba539qcybpym.jp/

http://www.japaneseweapons.net/

[rickystl]

Hi Estcrh.

You are a wealth of information !! Thanks for the info. and Links. Most interesting.
It does in fact appear that at least the rear sight was designed to accomodate a variety of different pieces to adjust the elevation or otherwise change the sight picture. This makes more sense now.
I did measure the heighth of both front and rear sights on my barrel. And they are the same. What's interesting is the front sight on mine appears made to accept similar sight adjustment pieces, versus a fixed blade. Possibly to allow sight adjustment on either or both sights. (?) Curious.
But thanks again for the info. and Links. Most helpful and interesting reading.
Rick

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Estcrh.

You are a wealth of information !! Thanks for the info. and Links. Most interesting.
It does in fact appear that at least the rear sight was designed to accomodate a variety of different pieces to adjust the elevation or otherwise change the sight picture. This makes more sense now.
I did measure the heighth of both front and rear sights on my barrel. And they are the same. What's interesting is the front sight on mine appears made to accept similar sight adjustment pieces, versus a fixed blade. Possibly to allow sight adjustment on either or both sights. (?) Curious.
But thanks again for the info. and Links. Most helpful and interesting reading.
Rick

Rick, here is another image of a movable sight installed on a matchlock, not sure if it is original, and an image of what seems to be an original sight from a Japanese matchlock book.