Scottish Dirk, dated 1785

Lee · 27th April 2024, 06:25 PM

I was watching Kidnapped last night, admiring the dirks and remembered this example dated 1785 on the hard leather sheath. Overall sheathed length 46.3 cm with a 33.3 cm blade that becomes double-edged for the last 45%. Maybe a very rubbed crown and G on the blade versus overinterpreted corrosion.

Jim McDougall · 27th April 2024, 07:35 PM

What a great piece Lee! and its so exciting to be reading or watching historical features while having an iconic weapon in hand!
No doubt this is a cut down hanger blade of British infantry form c.1740s-50s repurposed as a Highland dirk with the scabbard date having some clan significance perhaps?
After the tragic Battle of Culloden (1746) there were only 193 Highland swords recovered from the battlefield by Hanoverian forces. This was remarkable as there were some 1000 men of the 5000 Jacobite forces killed, and with such numbers, you would expect many more blades on the field.

It has seemed likely that as the Jacobites (there were also English and some French men among the forces, just as some Highlanders with Hanoverians), were clansmen mostly, and often closely related. The Highland broadswords were virtually sacred to the Highlanders and were even blessed by priests before the battle. It is likely many of these heirlooms were carried away by Jacobites as they removed from the field, powerfully outnumbered.

This is well, as to see the travesty and disgrace the recovered swords suffered as they were unceremoniously dismounted and made into a hideous fence at Twickenham, many years later dismantled and the blades into private holding.

After the '45, Highland weapons were proscribed, and the exceptions were dirks, which were allowed for utilitarian purposes. Many heirloom blades were cut down into dirks, while remarkable numbers of intact broadswords survived either in thatched roofs or many abroad in France etc.

As this example has clearly a British hanger blade (perhaps even a cutlass) it still falls into the category of an exempt Highland weapon, thus still given the honor afforded the clan broadswords in its traditional mounts.

'slainte'!!! with a good drink of Drambuie!

urbanspaceman · 27th April 2024, 07:53 PM

A wonderful piece, with a traditional Celtic style hilt of bog oak and brass cap; a real working weapon or tool... who could argue with that? I'm envious indeed.
As Jim explains, the spirit of the clan resides - regardless of its contraction.

urbanspaceman · 27th April 2024, 07:57 PM

Here's a Shotley Bridge made dirk from Brian Moffatt's Borderland Museum in Howick.
I have never seen anything so forbidding. The history attached to this dirk would probably fill volumes. definitely one for you Jim.

Jim McDougall · 29th April 2024, 05:17 PM

This is truly a sinister looking weapon Keith!! and powerfully exciting as it has clearly a SHOTLEY blade!!
This places this dirk solidly amidst the Jacobite events of the latter 17th century and the early uprisings and battles. That it was clearly assembled as an ersatz version of the dirk and distinctly for warfare says it all.

As you say, the history held within this weapon would most definitely fill volumes as these times were complicated to say the least ,and as you well know, mysterious . Your work has uncovered the truth behind much of all this and placed entirely new perspectives of our understanding of these periods in Scotland and Northern England in the Jacobite rebellions and the events around them.
This very well could be a weapon of the famed 'Border Reivers' , whose profound involvement in these conflicts is seldom notably represented.

27th April 2024, 06:25 PM	#1
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 914	Scottish Dirk, dated 1785 I was watching Kidnapped last night, admiring the dirks and remembered this example dated 1785 on the hard leather sheath. Overall sheathed length 46.3 cm with a 33.3 cm blade that becomes double-edged for the last 45%. Maybe a very rubbed crown and G on the blade versus overinterpreted corrosion. Attached Images

27th April 2024, 07:53 PM	#3
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 532	Wonderful dirk A wonderful piece, with a traditional Celtic style hilt of bog oak and brass cap; a real working weapon or tool... who could argue with that? I'm envious indeed. As Jim explains, the spirit of the clan resides - regardless of its contraction.

27th April 2024, 07:57 PM	#4
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 532	and this just in Here's a Shotley Bridge made dirk from Brian Moffatt's Borderland Museum in Howick. I have never seen anything so forbidding. The history attached to this dirk would probably fill volumes. definitely one for you Jim. Attached Images Last edited by urbanspaceman; 27th April 2024 at 07:58 PM. Reason: typos

27th April 2024, 07:35 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,948	What a great piece Lee! and its so exciting to be reading or watching historical features while having an iconic weapon in hand! No doubt this is a cut down hanger blade of British infantry form c.1740s-50s repurposed as a Highland dirk with the scabbard date having some clan significance perhaps? After the tragic Battle of Culloden (1746) there were only 193 Highland swords recovered from the battlefield by Hanoverian forces. This was remarkable as there were some 1000 men of the 5000 Jacobite forces killed, and with such numbers, you would expect many more blades on the field. It has seemed likely that as the Jacobites (there were also English and some French men among the forces, just as some Highlanders with Hanoverians), were clansmen mostly, and often closely related. The Highland broadswords were virtually sacred to the Highlanders and were even blessed by priests before the battle. It is likely many of these heirlooms were carried away by Jacobites as they removed from the field, powerfully outnumbered. This is well, as to see the travesty and disgrace the recovered swords suffered as they were unceremoniously dismounted and made into a hideous fence at Twickenham, many years later dismantled and the blades into private holding. After the '45, Highland weapons were proscribed, and the exceptions were dirks, which were allowed for utilitarian purposes. Many heirloom blades were cut down into dirks, while remarkable numbers of intact broadswords survived either in thatched roofs or many abroad in France etc. As this example has clearly a British hanger blade (perhaps even a cutlass) it still falls into the category of an exempt Highland weapon, thus still given the honor afforded the clan broadswords in its traditional mounts. 'slainte'!!! with a good drink of Drambuie!

29th April 2024, 05:17 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,948	This is truly a sinister looking weapon Keith!! and powerfully exciting as it has clearly a SHOTLEY blade!! This places this dirk solidly amidst the Jacobite events of the latter 17th century and the early uprisings and battles. That it was clearly assembled as an ersatz version of the dirk and distinctly for warfare says it all. As you say, the history held within this weapon would most definitely fill volumes as these times were complicated to say the least ,and as you well know, mysterious . Your work has uncovered the truth behind much of all this and placed entirely new perspectives of our understanding of these periods in Scotland and Northern England in the Jacobite rebellions and the events around them. This very well could be a weapon of the famed 'Border Reivers' , whose profound involvement in these conflicts is seldom notably represented.