powder/priming flask for comment

cornelistromp · 7th December 2013, 09:39 AM

a friend has bought this bottle at a collectors fair in Holland, the size of the body about 13x8cm, the decoration and studs reminds me of several western European objects.

what is it ? maybe a priming flask? Germany? 16th/17thC?

it is absolutely beyond my favorite field of knowledge , swords and daggers 1000-1600.

thanks and best,

Matchlock · 7th December 2013, 11:20 AM

Hi Jasper,

This flask - rather small, I assume - is definitely not of Germanic and 16th/17th c. origin.
The body seems way too thick to be able and accommodate much powder, the decoration is situated somewhere between fantasy and Oriental (Romania, Albania ...?) influence, and I much distrust the bone nozzle; such practical pieces of accouterment normally were equiped with an iron nozzle, a spring-loaded powder cut-off and a long hook for attaching the flask to a leather frog or a belt.
The few iron elements are too large to make anypractical sense, so therefore they must be mere ornament only. And real flasks alsmost never were made of bone or ivory, but of horn and wood.

It looks to me like a 19th c. or later tourism piece.

Best,
Michael

cornelistromp · 7th December 2013, 12:05 PM

Hi Michael,

Thank you for your response, this may indeed be a possibility.
it was more because this kind of rosette trim also accurs at early daggers
but if you never have seen one, in fact I think you could be right with your identification

maybe somebody else a comment?

best,
jasper

M ELEY · 8th December 2013, 01:20 AM

I'd lay odds that it's African, possibly either Moroccan or Algerian. The concentric circles, although popular in many cultures (including Tlingit knives/artifacts), are very popular in Western/North African items. I don't think tourist, just primitive, late 19th/early 20th c. You'd get a more concise answer on the Ethno Forum, I'd wager.

Matchlock · 8th December 2013, 10:30 AM

North Africa is a possible origin though the so-called 'sun gear' design is very popular in countries like Romania, Hungary, or Russia, which are nearest to 'Old' Europe.

m

cornelistromp · 8th December 2013, 05:09 PM

Indeed, the form points to north africa, morocco.
see the example

best,

M ELEY · 9th December 2013, 01:58 AM

Good find, Jasper! I suspected Moroccan as I used to own a Berber saber with the exact 'sun' patterning on the horn hilt and tooled leather scabbard, and I do mean exact. It's still a very nice piece that your friend has, if somewhat more contemporary than what they might have hoped.

7th December 2013, 09:39 AM	#1
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	powder/priming flask for comment a friend has bought this bottle at a collectors fair in Holland, the size of the body about 13x8cm, the decoration and studs reminds me of several western European objects. what is it ? maybe a priming flask? Germany? 16th/17thC? it is absolutely beyond my favorite field of knowledge , swords and daggers 1000-1600. thanks and best, Attached Images

7th December 2013, 12:05 PM	#3
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	Hi Michael, Thank you for your response, this may indeed be a possibility. it was more because this kind of rosette trim also accurs at early daggers but if you never have seen one, in fact I think you could be right with your identification maybe somebody else a comment? best, jasper Attached Images Last edited by cornelistromp; 7th December 2013 at 01:14 PM.

8th December 2013, 05:09 PM	#6
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,058	Indeed, the form points to north africa, morocco. see the example best, Attached Images

7th December 2013, 11:20 AM	#2
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Jasper, This flask - rather small, I assume - is definitely not of Germanic and 16th/17th c. origin. The body seems way too thick to be able and accommodate much powder, the decoration is situated somewhere between fantasy and Oriental (Romania, Albania ...?) influence, and I much distrust the bone nozzle; such practical pieces of accouterment normally were equiped with an iron nozzle, a spring-loaded powder cut-off and a long hook for attaching the flask to a leather frog or a belt. The few iron elements are too large to make anypractical sense, so therefore they must be mere ornament only. And real flasks alsmost never were made of bone or ivory, but of horn and wood. It looks to me like a 19th c. or later tourism piece. Best, Michael

8th December 2013, 01:20 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,101	I'd lay odds that it's African, possibly either Moroccan or Algerian. The concentric circles, although popular in many cultures (including Tlingit knives/artifacts), are very popular in Western/North African items. I don't think tourist, just primitive, late 19th/early 20th c. You'd get a more concise answer on the Ethno Forum, I'd wager.

8th December 2013, 10:30 AM	#5
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	North Africa is a possible origin though the so-called 'sun gear' design is very popular in countries like Romania, Hungary, or Russia, which are nearest to 'Old' Europe. m

9th December 2013, 01:58 AM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,101	Good find, Jasper! I suspected Moroccan as I used to own a Berber saber with the exact 'sun' patterning on the horn hilt and tooled leather scabbard, and I do mean exact. It's still a very nice piece that your friend has, if somewhat more contemporary than what they might have hoped.