Kris for opinion

ariel · 22nd December 2004, 10:11 PM

What can you tell me about this one?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWA:IT

BluErf · 22nd December 2004, 11:16 PM

Ooh... a rare form of Riau Bugis keris handle or East Sumatran... I think Dave has a couple of examples of ite more common cousin. Look at the subtle but beautiful refinements on the neck and on the head of the handle.

But, without the sheath, its quite hard to pin down it down for sure. The blade is probably East Sumatran. Not quite the typical Riau keris blade.

DAHenkel · 23rd December 2004, 02:38 AM

Interesting find Ariel. I've run into one or two of these before, most recently in Melaka - sadly so battered yet overpriced it wasn't worth considering - but they don't turn up often. They're clearly an uncommon variant of the "kerdas" hilt form and likely from the somewhat amorphous family of Straits Bugis keris. Its a shame its missing its scabbard as this might have helped in identifying it. Very likely the sheath was the more or less typical 'square' Bugis style sheath however to the accustomed eye there is a huge amount of variation in this form and this can sometimes help in attribution.

The blade is also a bit hard to place precisely and may be a trade blade. No doubt Eastern Sumatra is a safe bet though I've seen South Sumatran blades very much like this one.

The hilt in my collection which BluErf is refering to is somewhat different from yours, though both are probably related. Note in the image below the clearly defined medial ridge joining the tanjak and garuda mungkur on mine, while on yours the top of the head and the garuda have become a more or less amorphous blob. you'll also note that the body of mine, while perhaps a bit "stockier" than the usual Straits Bugis keris, still more or less fits the mould, while yours is a fairly unusual shape. Very flat across the back of the head, with a rounded face and rather thin at the neck and waist.

The keris in my collection has the so-called chieftain form sheath and a typical Straits Bugis blade. The keris I encountered in Melaka recently had the same sheath and blade form but again, the hilt was more like yours. This again suggests that the two are related although you can never be 100% sure.

Once more, nice find!

ronpakis · 23rd December 2004, 01:48 PM

to my opinion a south sumatran blade, rather nice quality, palembang? its rather unusual to see high quality blades elswhere on sumatra esspecialy with pamor.
but the selut and grip are more towards eastern sumatra, i really like the handle, old and not very common try to find a very nice scabbard for this one. my compliments.

ariel · 23rd December 2004, 05:49 PM

Many thanks for the opinions but the congratulations are misplaced: I did not win it. I did not even bid on it: krises are not my cup of tea.
However, just on general grounds I was quite impressed by it: it seemed to be of better quality than a lot of stuff sold on e-bay. Glad to have a confirmation of my gut feeling from real specialists.
Happy New Year to all of you!

DAHenkel · 27th December 2004, 02:02 PM

Keep in mind though Ronpakis that the entire Straits of Melaka is a hodge podge of different styles and different bits and pieces. These people were anything but sedentary and travelled up and down the Straits extensively.

Certainly there are definite styles in South, East and North Sumatra but never be surprised to find a S. Sumatran blade dressed in Riau style or a Riau blade dressed in Deli style or any other possible combination on and on ad infinitum. East Sumatra and much of the West coast of the Malay Peninsula is particularly bad. I like to use a general category of the Straits keris. This can be further broken down into Straits Bugis, Straits Malay and Straits Minang based on the general characteristics. But one thing is certain, there are no hard and fast rules - and if there is a hard and fast rule, it is to be prepared to be surprised.

22nd December 2004, 10:11 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Kris for opinion What can you tell me about this one? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWA:IT

23rd December 2004, 02:38 AM	#3
DAHenkel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	Interesting find Ariel. I've run into one or two of these before, most recently in Melaka - sadly so battered yet overpriced it wasn't worth considering - but they don't turn up often. They're clearly an uncommon variant of the "kerdas" hilt form and likely from the somewhat amorphous family of Straits Bugis keris. Its a shame its missing its scabbard as this might have helped in identifying it. Very likely the sheath was the more or less typical 'square' Bugis style sheath however to the accustomed eye there is a huge amount of variation in this form and this can sometimes help in attribution. The blade is also a bit hard to place precisely and may be a trade blade. No doubt Eastern Sumatra is a safe bet though I've seen South Sumatran blades very much like this one. The hilt in my collection which BluErf is refering to is somewhat different from yours, though both are probably related. Note in the image below the clearly defined medial ridge joining the tanjak and garuda mungkur on mine, while on yours the top of the head and the garuda have become a more or less amorphous blob. you'll also note that the body of mine, while perhaps a bit "stockier" than the usual Straits Bugis keris, still more or less fits the mould, while yours is a fairly unusual shape. Very flat across the back of the head, with a rounded face and rather thin at the neck and waist. The keris in my collection has the so-called chieftain form sheath and a typical Straits Bugis blade. The keris I encountered in Melaka recently had the same sheath and blade form but again, the hilt was more like yours. This again suggests that the two are related although you can never be 100% sure. Once more, nice find! Attached Images

22nd December 2004, 11:16 PM	#2
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Ooh... a rare form of Riau Bugis keris handle or East Sumatran... I think Dave has a couple of examples of ite more common cousin. Look at the subtle but beautiful refinements on the neck and on the head of the handle. But, without the sheath, its quite hard to pin down it down for sure. The blade is probably East Sumatran. Not quite the typical Riau keris blade.

23rd December 2004, 01:48 PM	#4
ronpakis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: netherlands Posts: 75	to my opinion a south sumatran blade, rather nice quality, palembang? its rather unusual to see high quality blades elswhere on sumatra esspecialy with pamor. but the selut and grip are more towards eastern sumatra, i really like the handle, old and not very common try to find a very nice scabbard for this one. my compliments.

23rd December 2004, 05:49 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Many thanks for the opinions but the congratulations are misplaced: I did not win it. I did not even bid on it: krises are not my cup of tea. However, just on general grounds I was quite impressed by it: it seemed to be of better quality than a lot of stuff sold on e-bay. Glad to have a confirmation of my gut feeling from real specialists. Happy New Year to all of you!

27th December 2004, 02:02 PM	#6
DAHenkel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	Keep in mind though Ronpakis that the entire Straits of Melaka is a hodge podge of different styles and different bits and pieces. These people were anything but sedentary and travelled up and down the Straits extensively. Certainly there are definite styles in South, East and North Sumatra but never be surprised to find a S. Sumatran blade dressed in Riau style or a Riau blade dressed in Deli style or any other possible combination on and on ad infinitum. East Sumatra and much of the West coast of the Malay Peninsula is particularly bad. I like to use a general category of the Straits keris. This can be further broken down into Straits Bugis, Straits Malay and Straits Minang based on the general characteristics. But one thing is certain, there are no hard and fast rules - and if there is a hard and fast rule, it is to be prepared to be surprised.